Bill of Rights
Tam posts about monday’s ‘Bill of rights’ day. And she dials up the snark. As is her wont.
The thread has a great deal of merit in it’s very contentiousness. The variety of reactions in the thread and the way people act when confronted with this concept beg the question: What is your line?
Tam talks about popping people (as she says) in the Snot Locker. Well, I’ve popped a few people in the snot locker myself, for a variety of reasons- thankfully, not too recently. In this millenia, though, now I think of it. She has drawn a line on a subject, and I believe she’s not kidding. I’m damned sure I’m not gonna tweak her on the specific subject.
That headed my thoughts in the direction of lines in the sand.
There is a line in the sand, that the federal, local, and state governments can cross, that will cause me to take immediate action regarding my safety and the safety of members of my household. Violent action, if need be.
I know Tam has that line. I know a lot of people have a line in the sand that they have placed their toe on, and they will allow movement to that line, and no further.
I also know people who have drawn lines in the sand, and when they have been crossed, erased them and redrawn a line a little futher along. “Now this line, if they cross it, I’ll be pissed”
Alger has spoken about the creeping, incrimental victories of the left. And when they make very very small movements, the tendency to erase your line in the sand and redraw it a little futher on is great. And maybe, sometimes, a good idea.
The problem with incrementalism is that you suddenly find yourself disarmed, broke, and alone, forty yards behind the line you drew in the sand thirty years ago.
We need to have a line that we will not erase. A point at which the creeping incrementalism must stop, or else. And that is what I’m thinking about now. It may not be a good idea to talk about it on the interweb. But think about it, for yourself, for your family. Where is YOUR line? Will you erase it and move it back an inch or two if need be?
37 comments Og | Uncategorized
Take your pick, Obama care, Vat tax, or Climate change tax, whatever that shit’s called.
There’s no shortage of opportunities.
“…you suddenly find yourself disarmed, broke, and alone, forty yards behind the line you drew in the sand thirty years ago.”
AND the camel’s in the tent & the frog is boiled.
Interesting, & contemplative.
I know, intrinsically, that the line is close by, but I have yet to draw one.
I know if attacked, or denied my God given rights, I’m on it.
But as freedoms ERODE, it’s difficult to pinpoint their decay to a moment of active resistance. Your point, of course.
I will need to think more on this.
Excellent post.
My line is undeclared, but the crossing of that line will bring hellfire upon the encroachers to such a degree that retreat will not be possible.
Declaring a “line” encourages the encroacher to approach it. Leaving the line undefined makes them wonder it they are too close already.
(Hint: They are too close already.)
Exactly, USC. The line should be yours alone to know. But you should cast it in concrete, not draw it in sand.
Tam is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken chit.
In the real world, the gubbernmint has to be able to break laws in order to enforce them. Cops must be able to break the speed limits, fire fighters and ambulances must be able to go through red lights. That doesn’t go over well with the libertarians because they think our cops are all SS stormtroopers and our politicos are demons. Some kids never grow up.
Having said that, I have no sympathy for terrorists and criminals that hide behind our laws and if that doesn’t sit well with these idiot liberals and libertarians, I really don’t care. If you are using privacy laws to try and hurt me and mine the constitution may protect you from the cops and gubbermint, but it won’t protect you from me – I will put your lights out and the lawyers and egg heads can go pound sand. At the end of the day the constitution is irrelevant – I will respect your line in the sand before some scrap of paper that politicians, liberals and libertarians wipe their arses with.
I think it’s also important to discern between “this is line where civil disobedience becomes an issue” and “this is the line where I take your face off.” For myself, the second line is much, much farther back than the first.
It is, however, much, much easier to know when it’s been crossed.
Rusty please don’t disparage Tam in my comments. There’s a lot of info on both sides of that discussion. And this thread isn’t about that anyway.
Fuck him, Og. I don’t sweat him none.
This is a fascinating thread – even more interesting than Tam’s, which seems to require a degree in constitutional law in order to follow.
What I especially like here is the consensus that at some point we will take the gloves off and back up no further. I particularly like Joanna’s distinction between the outer and inner perimeters.
Joanna brings to mind Kipling’s poem The Female of the Species. The first stanza says it all: “When the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride, he shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside. But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail. For the female of the species is more deadly than the mail.”
I don’t bring this as a gender comparison, but as an illustration of the two lines in the sand perspective. As Kipling so eloquently and vividly explains, the men deal with the outer perimeter and the various options available at that range, while the woman has no such luxury. If the threat penetrates to within her range, she has the home and the rugrats to protect – a last-ditch, no-holds-barred stand, if you will.
Sorry about that “mail!” Finger fart, I guess.
Clark, I wouldn’t mess with Joanna, that’s for sure.And I would run screaming like a girl if Tam was after me- I’ve seen her shoot.
Don’t let anyone tell you there aren’t differences between men and women. What we females lack in mass and upper-body strength, we make up for in ferocity and creativity. Our job as women is to be a civilizing influence on men, reminding them to wipe the mammoth poop off their feet before they come into the cave and to leave the club outside — but the higher a pendulum rises on one side, the farther it swings on the other.
Or, to quote Leela when Fry put his arm, unwanted, around her shoulders: “Take it off, or I’ll break it off.”
The line is where we choose it to be, and different for each of us.
And there is the rub.
There is a point at which I begin to demonstrate my lack of enthusiasm for government policies from the rooftops by throwing precious metals (copper and lead)….But that line is no doubt different for you, and for everyone reading this.
We likely will not choose to do so at the same time, and unless handled poorly by the government, we will each act separately, rather than together, and therefore are easy to remove one at a time. Unless there is action as a group, we are prey. Thus is the frog boiled.
It begs the age old question:
Who will lead us?
Who will bell the cat?
http://www.sobran.com/issuetexts/2003-03.htm
Scroll down to “The Promise of Publius”
We’ve been hosed for a LONG time. It’s just taken a couple centuries for the Master Plan to come to fruition. That it’s a slow-motion ass reaming makes no difference.
Mr B,
“Who will lead us”?
Christ on a crutch, man. Are you a going to wait, wringing your hands until someone shows up to be your leader?
As a man, YOU should be a leader, in your home, neighborhood and community.
Don’t wait for someone else to come along. They may just lead you to the camps.
Bob
III
Its not that simple bob.
Idahobob – I agree with Og. Remember the scene in The Godfather, when Robert Duvall whines about being replaced as consigliere? Pacino tells him that he’s a great peacetime consigliere but that now the family needs a wartime one.
Altho the distinction between war and peace in our situation isn’t quite so clearly defined, yet, I believe we’re still within the realm of finding peaceful solutions. In my case this means working to support candidates for local office who at least say they represent my values and those of my friends. Leaders for me right now are people who take risks to set good examples in representing those values. There aren’t many, admittedly, but their rarity is what makes supporting them so critical.
However, come ze revolution, I shall follow someone who’s been there, done that and whose leadership I trust will give my loved ones the best chance to survive. And if I can’t find anybody to follow, by gum I’ll get out the old handbook and try to do the job m’self.
I think, at least partially, that Bob is on to something.
Look at the first American Revolution. You had a number of local and regional (ie: notable “state wide”) leaders and men of notable stature, who voiced their displeasure with the actions of the King and Parliament back in Merry olde England. But until the formation of the Continental Congress, which brought all these minds together, and allowed for “the cream of the collected crop” to rise to the top, there was little chance of us acting in concert. From this emerged our first wartime leader (at least of the armed resistance, per the blessings of the Cont Congress) Gen Washington.
Could we have won without Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin? Or the dynamic words (and deeds) of Henry, Paine, and the like? Yes, there would have been local and regional leaders, but men of the like of the above, assuming center stage, taking on a much broader cloak of leadership, IMHO, are what made the difference.
The above being said, I believe the cat is already belled. (In fact it appears the cat has belled itself.) What remains is whether or not we chose to collectively listen to the peels, recognize the sound for what it is, and act accordingly.
Sorry for the size o the rant.
Best way to explain it that I can see is like this bob:
One gopher sticks it’s head out of the hole and is easy to see and pick off.
Ten or twelve gophers stick their heads up at the same time, some are going to get picked off but the rest will survive.
Hundreds of gophers stick their heads up at the same time and they leave their holes and take the battle to the entity picking them off then the gophers win.
Not a perfect metaphor by any stretch but there has to be coordination of effort or else we’ll all be picked off one at a time.
All of this has come increasingly important to me. I’ve been forced to retire and have spent the week researching my medical options. None appear too good. Continuing my company healthcare would cost more than my monthly pension check. My preference is a private plan. I’ve found a few that appear suitable and much, much less than that offered by my former employer. Medicare is a last resort, but even that offers the option of gap insurance.
Be that as it may, Obamacare removes my options and will force me to take FedMed. That is unacceptable.
If we’d had FedMed two years ago, I wouldn’t be here writing this. “It looks like a benign polyp and those tests are expensive, so … off you go! Have a nice life!”
I’m more worried about the government taking a bigger chunk of my paycheck for some lardass who can’t be bothered to get a job at the Stop-n-Shop, let alone pay his bills on time. Serves me right for trying to be responsible, I suppose.
Y’know, Bob: It’s a matter of timing. SHould I take to the rooftops in protes, you’ll read about me in the paper as a crazy….I might well be, but my eforts to protest the “crossing of my line” will be wasted.
Until the swell of discontent is great enough that I can be assured that other will join my efforts, an individual effort would be wasted.Until enough are discontented that there is a large enough group that might succedd, then anything else is premature and doomed to failure.
You want a leader? Be one yoruself. Decide that you have the motivation for armed protest or insurrection and, if I am so disposed and discontented, I may join you. Pick the wrong time, and you are alone, ineffective and your efforts wasted. Pick the right time, and you have a chance to succeed.
You choose your time, and I will choose mine. Until the time comes that I feel that my efforts will not be wasted, and that I have little to lose in my attempt, I will bide my time.
You make your choices according to your value judgement. I will make mine accordigly. When the time comes, in my judgement, I shall indeed lead, and take action.
THe cat is not yet belled. The water for the frog is warming, however.
Oh, and Bob:
Taking me to the camps might be harder and more costly than you give credit for.
If you know me, you’d understand.
“Taking me to the camps might be harder and more costly than you give credit for.”
Yeah, those sedatives and restraints ain’t cheap.
You think that that is all it takes?
Hi all~ not to offend anyone, but Tam and I are on the opposite sides of the same fence.
She fears fellers like me because she thinks we want to invade her privacy, go through her dirty laundry, make jokes about what we find and hang her with it in court.
On my side of the fence, I see Tam and her libertarians protecting their rights – which I have no problem with – but they are also protecting criminals and terrorists. They strike at us and then hide behind our law – and get off in court on technicalties and that isn’t right niether.
Here in the real world, sometimes the ends justify the means, sometimes violence IS the answer, and sticking to lofty principals only enables the ‘snot pickers’ o r gets people killed.
As you say NEandrepundit, sometimes you have to leave your feelings behind and see things as they are. There are perils on both sides of the fence between me and the libertarians, but at least over here we make allowances for human nature.
Your mileage may vary.
On my side of the fence, I see Tam and her libertarians protecting their rights – which I have no problem with – but they are also protecting criminals and terrorists. They strike at us and then hide behind our law – and get off in court on technicalties and that isn’t right niether.
Here in the real world, sometimes the ends justify the means, sometimes violence IS the answer, and sticking to lofty principals only enables the ’snot pickers’ o r gets people killed.
Do you even read this (or Tam’s) site on a regular basis? What on earth are you talking about?
Your mileage may indeed vary, and you’re free to argue with tam on her blog, but I expect civility here in both directions. Argue with me here all you want but don’t piss on another commenter here if you would please.
The older I get, the more black-and-white things seem. I’m tempted to say, “Fuck the line in the sand, push the bastards back!”
M
Did somebody call for a pizza?
Hold the anchovies!
Og,
Take five. I’m going to fetch Mentos.
Der Freshmaker!
I’m waiting for a half assed chance to survive the revolution or a reliable sign that the revolution will be a quiet one.
As I’ve often said about Congress and the ACORN Politico in Chief, These clowns are going to keep at it until the gunfire begins. My line in the concrete is when some medico tells my wife, who is also my best friend and lover that she has some disease that could be treated, unfortunately it’s too expensive and she’d only live a few weeks/months/years longer anyway, so go enjoy your remaining time so we can keep it available for someone (more deserving) who would reap greater benefit for the cost.
If that happens I will make a protes…….big ugly Em-Effin’ mess. Unlike the Honorable Dons of the Mafia Who don’t go after family, I’ll probably follow the example of the Democrats.
Dangerous Victim,
Interesting subject. I’ve thought for a long time that there will eventually come a time when we will see killing here in this country. I don’t see any way around it. I used to think it would be after I was dead and gone, but now I doubt that.
My question is, what, how and who will set it off?
That changes where the line is. It changes with who is involved and why.
I’ve got different lines for different people. Given some scenarios, I will step across that line and go offensive or engage in extreme civil disobedience.
To many variables at present.
I don’t know about you guys, but this’ll be my reaction the day the balloon goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QATBMhJVZjQ
I’m a party animal.
Many very interesting takes on the subject. For myself, I think GrumpyUnk pretty much nails it.
They sure as hell are pushing things, and I prefer to let them keep guessing as to details.
Be it understood though; I have made my peace.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX