AntiTheists.
I have no problem with atheists, or agnostics, though most have no idea what those words mean. What makes me nuts are the anti-theists, and the people who are so sure of their knowledge of “Organized religion” and the evils they contain. (often, those groups overlap)
yep.
I left a comment over at Marko’s place, and frankly, I’m too disgusted to go there and discuss anymore, lest my blood pressure be worse than it is.
Everyone is an expert on the Church, on Catholicism, on Christianity. Except not. Most of the people who spend most of their time denegrating the Church have no fucking clue what the fuck they’re talking about, period.
I’m gonna confine my statements here to the Catholic church, since it is the one I have 50 years of personal experience with, as a member, a seminarian, and a fledgeling theologian. I’m quite familiar with most other Christian sects, but just for now, let me talk Catholicism.
The worst old saw is that the Catholic church “Hides” priests who molest kids. This is the utterest bullshit that ever saw the light of day. The Catholic Church does no such thing, and has no such policy. There may be a few idiots who do things like this, and Catholics consider them with the same disdain they have for the guilty. The fact is, the Catholic Church has the first nationwide mandatory program for the prevention of molestation and abuse (Virtus) and all Catholic organizations and everyone who works with children in Catholic organizations MUST take the training which MANDATES a specific behavior which when implemented prevents this behavior. No other faith in America has this program or anything like it. And the incidence of molestation is at the same rate in the Catholic church as it is in other faiths, or other organizations, be it Boys club or YMCA or your local youth bowling league.
Well, it’s the organization, right? Organized religion is the problem, that’s it!
Don’t know what you’re smoking there, but the POINT of Christianity is to organize, and the Organization of the Catholic Church, that “Whore of babylon” as the calvinists love to call it, is responsible for a few things maybe you don’t know about. Millions of people in this “evil organized religion” spend a whole lot of their own free time and resources voluntarily supporting the community. Feeding the poor. Providing for the homeless. Caring for expectant mothers who choose to adopt rather than to abort. Doing what they can to make the world better for every single person- because that is what a Christian does. Because two people can do much more than one person, and a couple million people doing what they can to improve life for millions of other people, that takes organization, and the kind of organization it requires is what your local Catholic Priest is TRAINED TO DO. What do YOU do? me, I don’t do nearly enough, and I’m trying to change that- but the wife helps run the Bingo every monday, I help out at fundraisers, we do the things we can, because that’s what CHRISTIANS do. This is NOT the job of the government, and withot CHRISTIANS doing this, there would be a powerful lot more people falling through the cracks. In our parish alone, I know more than a few people whose lives are “Normal” instead of “Poverty stricken” because of the direct action of the Evil Organized Church. And because the Church helped them from falling through the cracks, they got their acts together and became helpers for OTHERS, and so on. Such is the nature of the “Evil organized religion”. Some parishes, the Church is the only thing between themselves and poverty.
This is not “just” the Catholic Church; this is also true of many, many Christian Churches, because it is the nature of Christianity to help. It is the case that the Catholic Church is the most well organized, and that has helped it to be able to do more for more than anyone else.
People “Claiming” to be Christian seldom do it 100% right. Some do it nearly 100% wrong. I’m a particular enemy of proselytizing; if i want you to join my faith, I will try to show you by my example how nice it is to be a member of my faith. I’d much rather earn your respect by treating you- and your beliefs- with respect. No, I won’t respect beliefs that are patently non-Christian. If you believe it’s ok to “Shun” people for not being the ‘Right’ kind of Christians, pardon me if I “Shun” you. If you think that Martin Luther or Calvin or Joseph Smith holds the keys to the kingdom of Christ, let me remind you, it was that guy- what was his name? Oh, yes, Jesus- who told Peter, the first Holy Father, “You are Peter, and on this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it’. That isn’t what makes you a Christian, though, you can be a baptist and be a great Christian just like you can be a Catholic and be less Christian than Carbon Tetrafloride, and vice versa.
Organization helps Christians do what they are called to do, better than they can do on their own. In any organization there are assholes. and all the people who are so anxious to throw out the baby and the bathwater because “organized religion is teh suxxors!!!” should maybe take a look at the individuals in the organization and then see what they think. There are 67.5 million Catholics in North America. If only ten percent of them are actual decent Christians, that means nearly seven million “evil organized religion followers” who would NOT be organized, working together, saving lives and improving lives and giving hope to people the world over.
Because of Organized religion.
yep. Fuck them. Real nice talk.

Although I’m not a Catholic I am a Christian and I note that whenever tragedies occur it is the Christian-based organizations (Catholic Charities, So. Baptist Missions, Salvation Army, etc.) that will be there feeding, clothing and ministering long after the TV cameras leave.If someone wishes to be an athiest or agnostic that’s their business but they shouldn’t denigrate the people who offer aid in Christ’s name.
Tad, they shouldn’t denegrate people who offer aid period. Some people just seem to have a special hatred for Christians.
Og. That was just beautiful. Thanks.
I am an agnostic. I don’t view this as a choice I made, but as an admission of where I am personally regarding religious faith after a lifetime of soul searching. Those who feel the need to proselytize on my doorstep want to “educate” me, explaining that god has commanded them to witness and get up in my face at 9am on a Saturday until I agree with them. I share Og’s distaste for these people.
I’m waiting for the next one to come by so I can try converting them to Scientology (Because it would be hilarious. Seriously, I’m thinking of building an ‘E-Meter’ and offering them a free Thetan Audit)
That said….
I also study history. Organized Christianity has done more to advance civilization than any other factor in recorded history. Can you point to times where Christianity was used as an excuse to do any number of evil things? Of course you can: such examples are legion, because human beings are plagued with assholes who twist and pervert anything they can to their own ends. Unlike Islam (which specifically commands it’s followers to convert or enslave everyone) the people committing sins in the name of God were violating their faith.
I’m an Agnostic, but I’d rather live in a Christian nation than a purely secular one, or under the shit stinking thumb of Islam.
PS: If the Scientologists were sending aid to Haiti or a similar disaster area, I would halt my ongoing scorn for them. Briefly. Until the tragedy is over.
Og: Just on the north side of our little rural town on the edge of a cornfield there is a warehouse built by a local Christian faith. Part of its title on the sign outside includes the phrase “…World Relief…” They had volunteers already in Haiti when the earthquake struck. They were up in the hills building a small school and I heard at coffee just two mornings ago that they finally heard from their members and they were all okay.
Organized religion Christian faith has it faults and weaknesses, but has any organized athetists, Scientologists, or ANY Islamic organization sent people to help Haiti, or any one else for that matter?
A few years back our other local community was hit with a flash flood that essentially made the homes in a good percentage of the town inhabitable as well as take the life of one man going to work. Of course, the Red Cross, FEMA and all the ‘name’ organizations showed up and offered ‘assistance’.
After 2 weeks they had all left….and just about everyone was glad to see ‘em go. But you know WHO really made the difference for several hundred from then on? That’s right, the local churches, including one that housed a couple of families in their basement for SEVERAL MONTHS!
Everyone should pray to whomever or whatever they believe in that such a disaster never happens in the area where they live, but if it does, my guess is their lives and their daily care, even their daily bread, after the dust settles, will depend upon the love, charity and care offered by many of the local Christian ‘organized religion’ churches because they will remain committed to the cause long after the government workers tire and go home.
All The Best,
Frank W. James
Thank you sir! Best thing I have ever seen on this subject!
I get so tired of the constant bias against Catholics in this country!
My son is a priest and this is similar to rants I have hard him say over the years. He can’t say them in public evidently, but he does what he can. As he was called to do.
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On Tuesday as the Haiti disaster was becoming more dire by the moment I was struck by something. You make great points. And Mr. James hammers them home quite nicely.
I am with you about proselytizing. I am an atheist, but have no hatred for Christianity. What get me upset is knowing more about the topic at hand than the guy trying to convert me! The Atheist shouldn’t know more about the scripture than the proselytizer (and I don’t know much)!
I’m waiting for a single fucking Musselman to show in Haiti to do some charity work. Won’t happen. Them Creoles are infidels, of course.
I have a theory that a certain percentage of ANY group will be jerks, I don’t care if the group consists of Christians, Cowboys fans, Computer Programmers or Random People Walking Down The Street. That percentage seems to generally run between five and ten percent. Some groups have higher percentages (like politicians).
My thought (as an Anglican Catholic) is that the fact that the guy in the other few being a jerk has nothing at all to do with how I ought to live out MY faith, and if he and I happen to end up working together for a common goal it’s the goal that counts (providing he’s just a jerk and not someone like a child molestor who ought to be drawn and quartered).