Well, the Republic had a good long run.
To all of those “Principalled” voters who stood by their “Principals”, thanks. When I have to live like an animal, I’ll remember that you did what you thought was right. And all you who suffered under the evil delusion that “Voting is immoral”, have fun in hell. I only hope I get there first so I can make up your bed. You won’t like it.
It isn’t any fun to learn that the majority of your countrymen are abject morons. On the other hand, it will be easier not to feel much compassion for them when they’re starving to death because of their own stupid.
Edited to add:
Lord, if I will have friends, then let them be my friends.
let them stand at my shoulder and enjoy my joy
Let them stand on my ramparts and mix their blood with mine.
And if I will have enemies, let them be my enemies.
let them hate me squarely and without reservation
I will see them on their ramparts and know precisely where they stand
I will feel the teeth of my enemy in my flesh,
and I will feel the flesh of my enemy in my teeth
I will hold the hand of my friend
and he will holld mine.
Deliver me from the apathete. Friend nor enemy to none,
they weaken me and strengthen my enemies,
in the name of “Doing unto others” They are all that can truly defeat me.
Well, I just converted to the “we can’t vote our way out of this anymore” school. But we gave it our best shot.
What was annoying this morning was having to listen to my wife say, in a chirpy happy voice, “But things will be so much better with it!” in response to my growl that we’d never get rid of Obamacare, now.
I agree. You can’t fix stupid. After last night I have no sympathy for half my countryman
Now I want to hear everyone’s closely guarded master plan for fixing this mess, now that their mom’s-basement wet dreams have succeeded. “Principled voters,” nows your chance!
(Cricket’s chirping)
Within the next four years we’ll be running around on motorcycles or cars with no doors, wearing football shoulder pads and ass-less chaps, scrounging for gasoline.
Oh, wait, we’re doing that in NJ now.
We are all well and truly f!-!cked and only half of us know it.
The Second Amendment will probably be history soon.
Yeah blame the principled voters who actually understand, not people like you vote for junk every time.
Don’t blame the GOP for picking a crappy candidate, who did nothing to inspire, leading to a low turnout and no reason to vote for him.
Thanks mattb for illustrating the truth of my point so efficiently. No solutions just whining.
Apparently Matt is unfamiliar with Heinlein’s dictum that if you do not find someone to vote for, there is always someone to vote against.
In this case the lesser of two evils was to vote against Obama…but not by voting for some practically-unknown third-party candidate who didn’t have a hope in hell of winning.
There was a great article in the WSJ the other day about why the Libertarian party needs to find a home in the Republican party, help it redefine itself, and stop drawing votes away from it. Wish I had the link.
And when various people find themselves in a deep pile of shit, it’ll be the Republicans/conservatives/libertarians fault; couldn’t POSSIBLY be because they helped cause it, oh no, it’s because “Those evil people are standing in the saviour’s way!”
Because they couldn’t POSSIBLY have done a stupid thing, oh no!
“Now I want to hear everyone’s closely guarded master plan for fixing this mess, now that their mom’s-basement wet dreams have succeeded.”
Really? You need to ask now?
The answer is incrementally, according to og.
But look at the numbers! Even if everyone of the ‘principled voters’ had voted for Romney(and that WASN’T going to happen, I think 40% plus would go Obama if you held a gun to their head)…he still would have lost! It looks like certain minorities weren’t buying what he was selling.
You can’t blame this on the 20,000 ‘principled idiots’ in Washington State who voted 3rd party…this is on the 25% results Romney was getting among minorities. People out there actually believe there is a War on Women. Me? I don’t think Pro-Life is a war on Women, but the Democrats convinced women that it is!
Likewise, I think the Republican Party needs to figure out that Same Sex Marriage is a done issue…that ship has sailed, and bringing it up isn’t helping.
Those are my solutions. I think the only other thing they could do is get on board the Amnesty Train along the border, but that idea pleases me not.
Arcs: What you got? Whining? i thought so. greg: So immorality is the key to success? Thanks, I’ll pass.
If success is our only measure, then we should start a free beer and hookers party. THAT would bring in the Hispanic vote.
What? No enchiladas?
Wow, I got John all messed up. Pity he’s missed the whole point. No, John, I do not decide who goes to hell, but I KNOW who is going there. I don’t decide who gets on the Tilt-A Whirl- those people get into the line themselves. but I can see them in the line. Shame you listen to so many fools. And thanks again for hastening the Endarkenment. Yours is on a large list of names who will be remembered as those who could have done something, but chose not to. When I asked you what YOUR plan was, the answer I received was the most ignorant single thing I have ever heard a human being say, and it disapointed me greatly. I suppose as long as you can fish you’ll stay alive, but man, you got to stop listening to people who twist scripture to make you do their evil for them.
‘Principled voter’ withholding a vote… that’s sort of the resentment thing, yes?
Drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die. How’s that working out?
yep, Don, you gotta wonder.
If the Republican actually offered something different that the Democrats offer, I’d have voted for them in a heartbeat. Mittsy and a Repub Congress simply could not fix this mess in four, or even eight, years.
Furthermore, they wouldn’t if they could. (But they WOULD be exposed as the fiscally irresponsible So-Cons they really are.) The Party of Lincoln, is not.
The only difference between the Parties is whose rights go into the woodchipper first.
“Drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die.”
If you voted for either Party, you did exactly that.
Just one more. The system is broken beyond repair. All we have left is the bloodied and tattered Constitution, and both parties are doing their damnedest to completely obliterate it. F*** them.
You wanted to solutions…I tried to propose it. Where we differe is feel it is immoral to impose limitations on people based of religous prinicpals of what is NOW the minority.
The fact is, ‘you’ are now the ‘principled voter’ you are railing against! You might not want to believe this, but the numbers from yesterday are the proof: the United States is no longer a Religous Country.
People still go to church, but the the number of people who BELIEVE(as you obviously do, and I admire that, I do)is getting smaller…and I don’t see that changing.
From that viewpoint, I don’t think you will see the Republican Party as you would picture it ever being a power again on a national basis. It is going to come down to saving an increasingly immoral Republic, or preparing for your own Eternal Salvation.
Ummm…yeah. Looking at is that way, I don’t there ARE answers sir.
“The fact is, ‘you’ are now the ‘principled voter’ you are railing against!”
I’m not sure what you’re smoking, but you shouldn’t share it, it’s causing you some not inconsequential brain damage.
Suz: This is why you left Catholicism; it did not leave you. You assume you are correct and everyone else is wrong, and it does not occur to you to even think you are in error. When you say
““Drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die.”
If you voted for either Party, you did exactly that. ”
it shows an heroic lack of understanding of the point.
Well, here’s a plan. We have three months before the ReAnointment Folly, so here’s what I recommend. Buy as much Canned Food that can be eaten Cold (if need be) with long expiration dates. DON’T FORGET CAN OPENERS! MRE’s are OverPriced, but a case or two of REAL Mil-Spec is nice to have. Have Baby Wipes and PURE 5% Bleach handy. Stock up on Propane to heat the Food. Stock up on Water. Stock up on pellets, .22LR, 12 or 20 gauge, 9mm, 5.56 Nato, 7.62 Nato ammo. (the Pellets, .22 and the Shotgun will be more for Hunting than Defense, but can be used in a pinch). The 9mm goes into your Pistols, the 5.56 is for Medium Range Defense, the 7.62 is for Long Range. Why that Ammo choice? Most common rounds used by the Police and the Military. Think Logistic Supply Chain. If your State allows Concealed Carry, run, don’t walk and get your Permit, and so should every Adult member of the Family. Carry TWO pistols if at all possible, because Murphy’s Law still Rules. And make sure they all take the same Magazines. If you got the Money, double up on all long guns also. Hard to get Spare Parts sometimes. Upgrade your First Aid, Meds and MultiVitamins. Don’t forget extra Pet Food. Get your Shots up to date, including the Flu. And any needed Dentistry, Remember, OBAMACARE will NOT be going away. Dress in Durable Clothes and Shoes, because you might have to walk home in the Winter Snows. Keep an Emergency Bag in each Vehicle. Get all your Vehicles up to snuff. Store Extra Gasoline, there are additives one can buy to extend the Shelf life. Watch the News. Stay away from the Inner Cities. Get Hand Tools likes Saws, Axes, Shovels, etc. Get in Shape.
And Finally, Pray to God you would only need these Emergency Supplies for Situations like Sandy, Katrina, etc. Trust me, being in an Insurrection SUCKS. Think DEFENSE, not Red Dawn.
YMMV, of course.
I disagree, Og. PLEASE prove to me that the Republican Party is more moral than the Democrat party. Please show me where either party has one iota of respect for the entire US Constitution. (And would Catholicism or any religion even still exist in this country, if not for the Constitution?)
How exactly, did I miss the point?
“Drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die” implies suicidal spite. The vast majority of us who honestly admit to having drunk the poison, do so with no spite whatsoever, and unlike the Party Faithful, we aren’t waiting for the other guy to die. We understand that poison is the only drink being offered, and we’re ALL dying.
We’re neither spiteful nor suicidal, we’re merely no longer deluded into believing we had the opportunity to drink anything that isn’t poison.
For the love of all that is Holy, please prove me wrong.
“PLEASE prove to me that the Republican Party is more moral than the Democrat party”
Please copy paste where I specifically said that it was, or that that was the point. You cannot, so I cannot answer that question.
““Drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die” implies suicidal spite.”
So you have managed to equate participating peacefully in a process to suicidal spite. I am sorry, I cannot make that connection, and trust me, by any measurement I am a lot more cynical than you will ever be,
“For the love of all that is Holy, please prove me wrong. ”
You want a private conversation with me, i will, and can, anytime you please. I’m on AIM and Google talk, and you have my email and can connect to me at any time on either. Don’t show up unless you’re willing to let go of your beliefs.
Bubblehead les: All good all the time. And excellent advice at any time.
If that wasn’t the point, what was? Didn’t I just ask you to tell me how I was mistaken? I am willing to admit that it’s possible I AM mistaken, you know. Just not blindly.
I let go of all my beliefs a long time ago. I have walked away from the dogmas of religion, party politics, and even feminism. Can I abandon much else and still be breathing?
“Didn’t I just ask you to tell me how I was mistaken?”
And I said that I would, but I cannot do so in this format. it is much easier for me to have that discussion in IM, or some other format.
You are full of belief still, as far as I can see.
I do what I can, with little faith in the outcome. That, and the existence of some form of deity, is about all I’m sure of.
How do I reach you on AIM (don’t even know what it is) or google talk? I’d like to understand what you’re trying to say; I might even agree with you!
I commented in the first place because I disagree with what I thought was the primary point of your post - that getting Obama and his cronies out of power is urgently necessary.
It’s not. It would be, if there was any chance we could replace them with someone better, but there isn’t. Not yet. Nothing of substance would change, even if every Democrat in Washington were to disappear from the face of the earth later today.
“It’s not. It would be, if there was any chance we could replace them with someone better, but there isn’t. Not yet.”
And you can absolutely, certainly prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this statement is correct? I cannot. It sounds like a belief to me, a belief I do not share. AIM is aol’s IM program, you can connect wiht me there or send me an email and I’ll send you the email to my google talk account.
No, og. I am not whining.
I was laughing at your idea that any of this could ever be changed at the ballot box in an incremental fashion, ala CCW _licensing_. That’s not whining.
What you thought was whining was probably an echo of this well, it was a nice republic while it lasted whine of yours.
Oh, so something that has been proven to work, will, in fact, not work. I see. And that’s just like all the rest of the brilliant ideas I hear. Sounds like a whine to me. Actually, anything that isn’t an actual, doable solutional alternative to what we got is, well, a whine.
BY the way, look hard at the gap between Obama and Romney in Ohio and Florida. And then look at the libertarian vote. And let me quote Physics geek to anyone who thinks Libertarianism is the Answer:
““It’s not. It would be, if there was any chance we could replace them with someone better, but there isn’t. Not yet.”
And you can absolutely, certainly prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this statement is correct?”
It’s a fairly logical default position when I see absolutely no evidence to the contrary. Each party would be overrun by the other if it wasn’t a Big Government Whore, exchanging goodies for votes.
Republican goodies tend to be along the lines of Corporate welfare, theocracy, and Police State, er Law and Order. Democrat goodies tend along the the lines of corporate welfare, union welfare, feminist welfare, and NAACP welfare.
Both parties are controlled by essentially the same people - banksters and would-be robber barons. The Repubs promise the mood and stars to churchians and various other SoCons, and the Dems promise the same to Unions and minorities. The only way either of them can pay for all that loot, is by maintaining a massive government that stomps on our freedom to say, “No, thank you.”
If it is your fate to live like an animal, courtesy of government waste and corruption, Mitt Romney, along with 500 or so congresscritters, could not prevent it. The damage is done and will not be undone by either party. The people in charge of both parties, already have everything they want, and the only changes they will make are cosmetic. Our government is rotten to its core. I voted according to that principle, and it will not be my fault when the economy collapses around our ears. I find it surprising that you might think otherwise. Can I ask you point blank - do you have faith in the Republican party?
Hopefully I will be the most retarded moron you’ll see today. It is my dream.
My adolescent fantasies are threatened by anything that resembles the truth, so i will continue to be a moron.
“It’s a fairly logical default position when I see absolutely no evidence to the contrary”
Is your mom a sleestak? it’s a fairly logical default position when I see absolutely no evidence to the contrary.
Do you see how silly that sounds? When you make an assumpton based on “You can’t prove it wrong” it doesn’t mean you can prove it right, and to make decisions on something that cannot be proven is, frankly, silly.
You have spent a lot of (Electronic) ink making a case for “X acts like this, and has acted like this in the past, so X will always act like this.”
You are, of course, yourself living proof that- as all the commercials for financial products point out- past performance is no guarantee of future results. Only those people who have time machines and are in control of alternate destinies can go forward in time and prove, for instance, that if Romney had been elected he would behave in manner X. otherwise, you’re making an assumption based on your belief of the way something will act. belief, that word i dislike so much.
“If it is your fate to live like an animal, courtesy of government waste and corruption, Mitt Romney, along with 500 or so congresscritters, could not prevent it.”
Please, prove this, and show your work. You cannot, and therefore it is either your belief, or your opinion. I am not constrained by your opinions, and I do not share your beliefs.
My state went hard enough blue–as I knew it would–that my vote for Gary Johnson didn’t amount to a fart in the breeze.
My legislative district is so hard Democrat the GOP doesn’t even bother running candidates against them. The entire slate of county elections went Democrat again, re-electing Democrat incumbents.
Illinois is such a craphole.
Yes, Ed, I know, If you lived in Ohio or Florida i would probably have been annoying you a lot more, but living where you do, frankly, I’d probably have done exactly as you did.
Under those other circumstances I probably would have said, “Hang the principles” and voted for Romney.
I will admit–now–to having thoughts of doing so, and even after I pulled the lever for Johnson those doubts lingered–until I saw the numbers on Tuesday night.
As it is, I am satisfied that I stood true to my principles…and had no effect on the outcome whatsoever.
A man who loves this country and has never said a bad word about it or its people is a damn sight better than that the preening pompus ass we have now.
He as apoligized to every dictator and third rate thug he can find. He has killed, by is own hand, Americans that did nothing but value this great country.
Half the people who read this will understand. The other half I will be seeing in hell. And I will be carrying the whip.
Og, you keep attacking what I (and others) say, in non-specific terms, but you don’t answer any questions. I get the coy approach, holding your cards close to your chest, but I wonder why you’re using it. You’re extremely intelligent - you don’t need to be coy. If you have an opinion, such as your implication that independent voters have ruined this nation because they didn’t replace Obama with Romney, on what do you base THAT opinion? It your blog, your platform, your opinion. I happen to like the way you think, but you’re taking pains not to reveal much in the way of your thought process on this matter, which you brought up. Where are you coming from? Whose Kool-Aid do you drink?
Do you believe the Republican Party can solve this nation’s woes? If so, I disagree. I didn’t ditch one type of dogma only to adopt another. And I think your religios analogy is apt. No, I’m not Catholic anymore, but I didn’t become a Baptist or an atheist either.
I cannot properly have this conversation here. I can answer your questions but not in this format. How often must i say this before you understand? If you dont want to have that conversation its fine. I just cant do so here meaningfully and honestly and do the subject justice.
“No, I’m not Catholic anymore”
A catholic can no more stop being a catholic than start being a cow. You either still are, or never were. Another conversation I cannot have in this format, beause it requires asking specific questions, in specific orders, that require specific answers, and the space between your replies would mean it would take 200 years having this conversation in this manner. Capisco?
Og. Though you disagree with me, vehemently, in regards to the matter of voting, and to a lesser extent on matters of faith, I would like to think, to believe, that these philosophical differences would make no difference if we were in fact neighbors. That even though we disagreed, we could share a beer on the front porch.
You ask what is my plan? Here is my plan, as specifically as I can state it: I will only do unto others as they will do unto me. If I am alone in this. So be it.
Even though we disagree, I assure you that I would never attempt to coerce you, or any other individual, in any matter, great or small.
Ah, yes: apathy. The greatest sin of all.
One of the fundamental problems with the Republican party is its stance on the pro-life/pro-choice issue.
My wife and I are fiscal conservatives, but are pro-choice. We did vote Republican, but almost sat out voting because of this one position on the party plank.
Pro-choice is the law and it won’t be changed for the foreseeable future. If the Republicans would just leave this issue alone they would pick up several million more votes. I don’t mean support it; just ignore or be neutral on the issue.
Stressing a pro-life platform has a similar effect as voting Libertarian; votes are lost and we end up with Obama and socialism.
mkl: There are some people out there yet with morals, who would like a candidate with morals.
Yes Og, and there are some people out there yet with personal ability to cope, and just want the government to leave them alone. They vote Libertarian and Oboma ends up winning.
I would like a candidate with morals who would leave a specific religious belief out of the equation. The most moral boss I ever worked for was a Mormon, yet an acquaintance of mine said he would never vote for Romney because “He is not a Christian.”
We will never reconcile religious beliefs (Muslim vs all others, etc.) but if we could only leave the “hot buttons” out of a Republican platform, perhaps we could elect someone who will not lead this entire country into socialism.
Mkl, it is almost impossible to be fiscally responsible and not also be moral, although you probably see it now in a different form. See Political Cowardice and Social Security for an example.
Our society has been duped and as a whole continues go along with the duping of the next generation because of tactics of both the Left and money-grubbing politicians. It is a chain reaction that at times earlier in our society would not have been permitted to have begun for moral reasons.
Started a comment and it evolved into this:
http://frizzensparks.org/?p=1757
Pascal: Very good blog article. Almost 40 years ago at age 30, I decided that the chances I would ever see any social security payments was very low. I managed my finances accordingly and now could very easily give up the monthly check. I would support a means test if it ever came to a vote.
Unfortunately, I have to disagree that your suggestion of doing the moral thing and foregoing a SS check will have an effect on anything. We’ve already passed the tip-over point where the have-less can outvote the have-more. You have probably seen this quote:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville (1805 - 1859)
I wish I could be more optimistic, but unless the Republican party can give up fighting each other while the house they are in is burning down, I have little hope for a moral USA in the near future.
I don’t disagree with your assessment about effectiveness mkl. I don’t even disagree with Grau’s position to let them die in their pigsty and not think twice about it.
I knew this needed fighting when I was younger and kept hoping someone else would take the lead. The few who dared got pummeled by all those who like where this is headed (Nikita Khrushchev said they’d bury us; so it wasn’t the USSR, it was their pod-people instead. Same difference.)
No, I am guessing my track will remain a personal penalty for not having the balls to actually get angry when it still may have mattered. At least you know one person who refuses to allow them to steal in my name.
When the operators of this Ponzi scheme are asked by their Maker to account for what stuck to their fingers they will not be able to claim they did it FOR me.
“I would like a candidate with morals who would leave a specific religious belief out of the equation.”
Are you speaking about abortion? because that is not and will never be a religious belief.
I don’t know og… “Thou shalt not commit murder” is pretty much a religious belief.
Of course, it’s also pretty much a moral belief of virtually every civilization since the dawn of man.
Let me know where on the ramparts you want me.
davek
So hammurabic code was religious? Try and keep up.
‘So hammurabic code was religious?’
Well yes. Have you read it? The Babylonians were very religious people and they based their laws on it. Umm…that’s basic history.
Not a good analogy. Better is: It’s to my selfish advantage that murder is forbidden. I have a better chance to live that way.
You are of course absolutely correct, Steve; I just think of the dork worshipping babylonians as “pre real religion” so it’s my mistake. hard to take them seriously as a legitimate religion, to me, anyway. Do remember that the Hammurabic code was in fact a code written by man, and that religion was subject to it, wheras the Mosaic code (Which is what I mean by religious code) was (ostensibly) written by God, and set religion as the law. this is what i mean, basically. And in any event, it is morally wrong to murder no matter who you are or who you murder, even if you are an atheist. Abortion as a medeical treatment to remove an unwanted growth is a malthusian canard.
What you are saying is that the Mosaic code was explicitly religious and the Hammurabic code only implicitly so (or only derived secondarily from it). Ok, that makes sense.
But if you have a hard time understanding the Babylonian’s as religious just compare them to ancient Greece, a truly secular society. The difference is pretty stark.
However, the ancient Babylonians lived long before monotheism caught on. I’m betting they never even thought of it.
The reason the abortion issue is the MOST decisive issue in America today is that both sides (based on their initial assumptions) are correct. Because of that, neither side will give an inch. This moral conflict might be the trigger (although not necessarily the underlying reason) for civil war.
Both sides are correct? How so?
(Sorry, your comment somehow went to spam)
I am not certain exactly what I wrote either but what I’m sure I meant is that once you accept their initial premises, the logic of the other side is valid. Therefore it is in those initial premises that the mistake has been made and where the battle must be fought.
Therefore, I should probably have said that both sides had a valid argument, not necessarily a correct one.
So the always check your premises and make sure you opponent does as well.
I think I also made some random comment about the time period of the Babylonians and how because of that they would have had no means to know the truth.
So the rest of us have to accept that the “Pro choice” people’s stance is valid because their assumption that a human life is only a human life if they say it is?
Sorry. There is no “Pro choice” stance that has any moral basis, and is in fact immoral to the core.