Principled Uncertainty
This one’s for you.
I’m not here to do ad hominem attacks or belittle someone else’s beliefs. It’s just rare to engage anyone in this kind of discussion, so without rancor, and with as much civility as we can all muster, let’s discuss this.
Principled Uncertainty doesn’t believe in a creator. Instead he believes in somehting he calls “natural intent”.
My first question about this is: I believe the Universe was crteated, and that it did not spring forth from nothingness. I believe this was accomplished by the Creator of the Universe. Hence the title. Starting wiht this, and moving on to other questions, P., who created the universe for you?
13 comments Og | Uncategorized
Um, would that not then be, you know, God?
That’s the distinction I’m trying to get to, yes.
Can’t say, wasn’t around then.
I do have my suspicions though.
I believe the same as you Og, except when it comed to Arkansas, God in all his wisdom couldn’t mess uo like that.
The universe was always here. I can’t prove that, can’t argue with the evidence for the Big Bang, and can’t believe that there was nothing before the Big Bang.
Just wondering, given what you said above, “I believe the Universe was crteated” do you mean you think the essence of life is teats?
more, you’re gonna have to clarify or work harder. ‘big bang’ only a surmise.
Beginnings and endings are human ideas. This is where the problem is. We try and understand a reality that is beyond our reconing. There is no way to know that our universe – and that is an inaccurate term because it lacks the necessary scope – hasn’t always existed and will have no ending.
What I have disposed of in my own interpretation of existence is the Biblical account. It is not my intention to offend others or belittle their beliefs when I say this, bit I find the Biblical explanations inadequate. The notion that there is a providence, responsible for all creation, removed from our reality, hearing prayers, punishing and rewarding, just doesn’t do it for me; there isn’t sufficient reason to believe it. What I am trying to do is find an explanation for myself that is more consistent with reason and whenever possible that fits with what we can actually observe in nature.
That is my key aim, to find an accounting of existence that fits with objective reality. Our ideas may not be provable, but they must make sense.
prin- the biblical account was an explanation of events for people with limited knowledge to understand. Catholics for instance do NOT teach the biblical account as “history”. its a fairy tale. My Jesuit teachers taught me to believe that science was a window into the mind of the creator.
beginnings and endings exist outside of humans, always have. we perceive them and no more. to say something like ‘everything has always been here’ tellls me this: you will believe in anything, as long as it’s NOT God.
“It is not my intention to offend others or belittle their beliefs when I say this”
I for one am not offended. I myself, raised catholic, altar boy, etc. came to relinquish all belief in God. How could I condemn someone for expressing (with no malice) what they believe? Having said that, I hope the coin has two sides. I bear no one malice when I say “What kind of idiot..” oops, sorry, Seriously though, it’s all a matter of faith, and what you choose to believe given the evidence around you. We are not in a position to know. I think of God’s perspective and mine in the same sense as a two-dimensional man would regard a three dimensional person who every now and then says “Don’t go around that corner, I can see where it leads from my vantage point.” It’s implicit that I don’t have that vantage point. But that voice has been heard…
Sounds like some one just finished his/her/its sophmore year philosphy class.
At least that is were I first heard this kind of crap.
There is no doubt that the universe we observe was created. If something is advanced enough to create the universe we observe we should call that entity god. Where we run into problems is when we get the overweaning arrogance to assume we know as much as god. When the character named “Principled Uncertainty” can create a living being by clapping his/her/its appendages, we’ll talk.
The reason I want to have the discussion is the sense that- knowing something exists- what are it’s origins? You must have belief either way. What makes you believe in utter random chance (Which necessitates such incredible odds against) instead of a creator? And what must you have invested in the idea that no creator exists so you have to believe such improbable happenstance as “it happened of it’s own”?
You know, when you come to the conclusion that there is a Creator, your next assignment is to find out why. My understanding of most religions (and I’m not exhaustively informed on this) is that we are an accidental creation and the creator has a hands off approach. I like that the Judeo-Christian (particularly the Christian) approach gives a reason.
The Gospel of John is a good start.
Like Og said “what must you have invested in the idea that no creator exists…”, people typically believe what they WANT to believe. And that’s why Cristianity is based on Faith. It’s God’s way of demonstrating who it is that would LIKE to believe in Him.