On Christianity, and the Right.
Alger and Tam are sparring, nicely mind you, over the link between the Right and Christianity.
Both have valid points- in fact, I tend to agree with Tam about a good deal of this, because of the way “Christians” have sort of taken over portions of the party.
That being said, I have to define “Christianity”
Christianity is an exquisitely tiny theology, with few enough members that they may even be countable on the fingers of a hand. I certainly am not a real Christian, though I do sometimes try to be. Other times, not so much.
See, most. And I mean MOST people who subscribe to Christianity, or profess to, are actually subscribing to some breed of pseudochristianity peomoted by the Greeks, or the Catholics, or the Lutherans, or- god forbid-the Calvinists.
The problem with all these religions is that they adhere to the “Where’s mine?” theology. The idea that Christianity is a merit badge and the individual must earn it by doing what their particular sect demands of them. And knowing that they have acheived their merit badge leads them to assume that they have the moral high ground, and they begin to act decidedly un-christian.
Look, if I were wrong, there would be only one church, and everyone would belong to it. Christianity transcends religion. And few people get there- a fact that Gandhi grasped remarkably well.
So on the one hand, Tam is absolutely correct- that bible thumpers have fucked up the process in ways we cannot begin to understand. But on the same path, she’s in error, because Christians- real ones, not the breed you see every day- would never do this.
Maybe if we started with more “real” christians, we might be better off in the long run. And “real” christianity is inseperable from good government, because the principles of decency and justice that Christ taught make perfect sense in governing- but those principles are so rarely espoused by “Christians” that I doubt they even know what any of this means.
Just my .02. And it’s a tarnished pair of aluminum pennies, unfit to even weight a dead man’s eyes.
18 comments Og | Uncategorized
I haven’t seen the discussion…. But you’ve laid forth *quite* a few lucid points yourself. More than enough weight!
Amen…Brother og
Since you didn’t link, I can’t comment on the argument you mentioned. All I can do is comment on me.
I’m a Christian. Meaning, I believe Christ died for my sins, and since I believe that, my sins are forgiven.
Full Stop.
I don’t have a lot of use for most churches and preachers – they are, to put it mildly, sinners just like me. I know how to read, and have a Bible, and God and I do our business here at home.
My belief in Christ as my Saviour does NOT affect my politics. God gave us the power to choose, when he allowed the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. That power to choose continues to this day, and I believe it translates to individual liberty.
NOT state authority. Thus, I believe, as a Christian, that God wants us to be in control of our lives, and make our own choices, and not be subject to an authoritarian State.
There’s my $.02 – don’t spend it all in one place.
So you put yourself above those who attend certain churches regularly?
We are all sinners.
We need the Bible to use as a guide book.
A child can learn to drive, but can they learn from a book and then successfully drive a race car?
No, I think there is a place for churches. Not to say there are not bad people in many and in many they are running them. But still we are called to be a community of believers and follow in Christs path. We are all children of God. All of us. Whether we want to be or not. Some choose to ignore this and want to live a life without His presence. They have the free will to do so. And you have the free will to walk away from the very institution that is trying to help you get closer to God. All I can do is pray for you.
And I will.
Most pew warmers are of the mind, “I believe in Christianity, I just don’t think it should interfere with one’s life.”
And therein is one problem.
I firmly believe that the Old Testament gives great outlines for governing a community (no, not the stoning of rebellious children part! although…) with respect to order and judges and national defense. The New Testament gives transcendent guidelines for the individual. Most evangelicals confuse two.
Spouting WWJD to the State is asinine. Why, Jesus might just take a whip to the tax collectors, you know? He may just call the Legislature a brood of vipers. My kinda guy, but not likely to get elected and more likely to get crucified for not being part of the D.C. elite.
I am a chit house christian and am no doubtt on very thin ice with God. I am also of an age where I will be called to my judgement sooner rather than later.
The nuts and bolts of religion are the same that hold our gov’t together and that is why they clash.
I hear the childish libertarian types beating their own dead horses the way bible thumpers beat that Book. Religion and politics are one and the same if you distill them down to their base components – and both have their share of zealots, craven, hypocrits carpet baggers and black guards.
The redeeming value of American Christans is this in my opinion:
they will ask questions that the liberals, the libertarians and other social progressives won’t. They would force us to think about questions they would rather not, like abortion, stem cell research and other moral and ethical issues.
I have been around alot longer than alot of you kids, and my mind and body are beginning to fail. But I see our society and country weakening under permissive and tolerant liberalism and libertarian selfishness – and it is getting worse. Perhaps it is a perspective thing but the America I grew up in was a better place than it is today.
We are all far too obsessed with ‘what’s mine’.
In other words, Christianity versus Churchology.
Bible haters/anti-Christians are everywhere these days. One of the things they love most is baiting believers. Why give them the satisfaction?
It’s one thing ot engage in a discussion of real opinions and to share ideas with rational thinkers, and quite another to march up to a Believer, poke him in the chest with a forefinger, and begin to tell him profanely how STUPID he is for believing in the Bible, Jesus Christ, or in any specific church, how enlightened it is to not believe, and to use filthy language in the process.
It wouldn’t be so bad if these baiters were educated in the various faiths involved, or had real wisdom. But most times, unfortunately, they are nothing more than snotty college kids or other young people who get a kick out of making older folks splutter and rant.
Giving people like this an opportunity to spew by responding to their goads is a waste of time, effort, and a casting of one’s pearls before “swine.”
One thing is for sure in a situation like this: there will be no real winners but Satan.
For those interested, the original discussion is here. My follow-on post is here.
Considering that the heirarchical descendants of Peter and Paul reside in the Roman Catholic church… What? Don’t they get to define the theology? The rest of us may disagree, but they have the provenance.
Please to note that I haven’t joined the Catholic church.
M
Rdennis, I would veture to guess, that having attended seminary for six years, and in mass every day for all of those six years, and in mass every weekend of my life, that i have attended more church than you ever will. That also means I know where the bodies are buried, and there are a LOT of bodies. You just don’t want to know.
I don’t put myself above anyone- just the opposite. I’m the biggest asshole I know, and will probably always be.
Og
Christ died for us assholes (of course you know that, just establishing some solidarity).
Cal Thomas is calling for Christians to leave politics. What?
My principles, as dictated by my belief in the Lordship of Jesus Christ and my understanding of what he would hold me responsible for, guide everything I do (except when I neglect them, to my shame). Why should my involvement in political activity be precluded?
I was going to reply, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I’ll need to go back to my home blog and post, rather than fill this page.
Don’t anyone thing I’m denegrating Christianity here, just the people who are masquerading as Christians. And I’m the biggest damned hypocrite of them all, so don’t think for a moment I’m some kind of high and mighty SOB.
[…] On Christianity and Churches Filed under: Uncategorized — mtsonline @ 22:19 This post in Neanderpundit got me going here. It’s more of a response to it than an independent post of its own. Not a disagreement or argument, just what I see, and from time to time it differs. And Og was a seminarian, so it’s not like he’s talking about stuff in which he’s not been immersed. So don’t expect a well structured column. […]
As a non-Christian I don’t have a dog in this fight, but IMHO Cal Thomas has lost his mind. Christians need to stay involved in the political process. Walking away and ignoring it is the best way I know to marginalize yourself.
I’d much rather live in a Christian nation, flawed though it might be, that in a nation that did not know God at all.
I don’t think anyone completely understood this. I’ll expound later.
When asked how he got the people to be so well behaved, Joseph Smith’s reply was “I teach correct principles and the people govern themselves.”
That’s true Christianity.
Mormons, well behaved? Are we speaking of the same people?