because Billy doesn’t seem to allow comments, or maybe I’m just not one of the cool kids, here’s a comment he made to me, without knowing me from adam.

Here, first of all, is my comment:

“I wish I had more faith in human nature than I do. I have had it proven to me, painfully and repeatably, that human nature is utterly unworthy of such trust. And I am the most egregious example thereof.”

This was in reference to this post of Roberta’s, about governments.

The post, and the spirit of it, is spot on. If people were capable of self governance, there would be practically no need for a government of any kind. Truer words are rarely spoken,. The message of this, however, is not what Roberta thinks it is, but almost precisely the opposite. The fact is, people are asses. And some of them are egregious asses. And without a governing body of some kind or another, people would foist their asininity off on everyone they could. Shit, we HAVE a governing body, and people STILL do it.

Anyway, here’s the enlightended response from Mr Enlightenment himself:

If that last line is really true, then who needs ya? And: I say you’re projecting. I say that you can take your rotten view of human nature and hit the road, because my half-century on the planet has taught me very differently.

I think you’re talking bullshit. If this government dissolved completely before the sun went down on this day, it would not remotely occur to me to run through the streets raping, burning and killing, and I don’t believe for a second that it would occur to you. You and I are not at all different from the vast overwhelming (emphasize that) run of human beings in this regard. And before it occurs to you to call me a utopian, let me just emphasize the reality that evil people exist. We’re not going to have that argument: it’s dismissed. Evil people have always existed, right down to the present day in which we have more Law & Order in place to deal with them than ever before and they still exist. The state is a natural failure in this for natural reasons of reality: it simply cannot reach to the human heart, no matter what.

And here is a moral bottom-line: you can think you’re a crumb if you want to, as well as everyone around you, and none of that is a warrant to force me to live with the state just because you are afraid of everyone around you. That doesn’t matter — you cannot force me to live the implications of your fears — and I don’t care: I’ll take my own chances. It’s my life: that’s what it’s for, and I know that I’m good enough to live it.

Alright, let’s look at this piece by piece.

If that last line is really true, then who needs ya?

This is precisely what I’m talking about. Wonderful, caring individuals like you? I cannot WAIT until the world is populated by your type, with no rules other than self imposed ones.

And: I say you’re projecting. I say that you can take your rotten view of human nature and hit the road, because my half-century on the planet has taught me very differently.

That would be because you have lived an incredibly sheltered life. Period. if you haven’t seen the capability for evil in every person you meet, you are flatly blind. And yes, you can have LOTS of wonderful life experiences, and not have a fucking clue. Experience does not equal wisdom. Period. End of discusssion. Next.

I think you’re talking bullshit.

Currently, it is your ability to freely think any ignorant bullshit you want.

If this government dissolved completely before the sun went down on this day, it would not remotely occur to me to run through the streets raping, burning and killing, and I don’t believe for a second that it would occur to you.

You, of course, have no fucking clue whatsoever what would occur to me, and this is the most ridiculous strawman I have ever encountered. It is not rape and murder that is the issue, of course, but I wouldn’t expect you to understand that, at all.

You and I are not at all different from the vast overwhelming (emphasize that) run of human beings in this regard.

Please don’t for a moment attempt to characterize me as being anything like you. I don’t know what you’re like outside of what i read that you have written, but i can guarantee that I am nothing whatsoever like you.

And before it occurs to you to call me a utopian, let me just emphasize the reality that evil people exist. We’re not going to have that argument: it’s dismissed. Evil people have always existed, right down to the present day in which we have more Law & Order in place to deal with them than ever before and they still exist.

This is what misses the entire point, and will, and does, and is why “anarchism” does not work, will not work, and cannot work. Evil and the capability to do evil exist in every single human, and the relevant fact is, without an established system of rules and punishment for breaking them, people will allow that evil to bubble to the surface rather quickly. THis has been proven again and again, it is a forgone conclusion, and one I don’t even have to bother discussing, far more learned people than me have proven it. Again and again. We’re of course not talking about people running around raping and murdering, but, in the beginning, about not mowing their lawns. Because the moment there are no rules, people will make up their own. Ralph will stop mowing his lawn. And George will get pissed about it, because he LIKES a nice, manicured lawn. And nothing good can come of that. Let’s see what the possibilities are:

1: George confronts ralph and they fight
2: George just lets the issue fester until he gets pissed off enough and starts throwing dogshit on Ralph’s lawn.
3: George just lets the issue fester until he gets pissed off enough and starts mowing ralph’s lawn like crop circles.
2: George just lets the issue fester until he gets pissed off enough and gets drunk and blows up Ralph’s car.

Not likely to happen? It happened last summer across the street from my uncle. And this kind of shit happens everywhere on the planet, every single day. Because people are demonstrably assholes. And the nicest people are some of the biggest assholes, when prompted to be.

No. Anarchy can’t work, and never will, because people’s darker natures, without any impediment, will bubble to the surface immediately. The fact is, it’s a tough job being an entropy warrior, and it’s expensive. I have spent a good chunk of my life fixing things for people- doing what I can to make people’s lives better in what ways I can. It’s torn me up pretty good, and I bear the physical and financial and emotional burden of it every day.

The state is a natural failure in this for natural reasons of reality: it simply cannot reach to the human heart, no matter what.

This may be the most incredibly obtuse thing I have ever read. The state was never meant to reach the human heart. And it is utter bullshit to think this is necesary or even remotely useful. Governing by feelings is socialism, which always fails. End of discussion.

And here is a moral bottom-line: you can think you’re a crumb if you want to, as well as everyone around you, and none of that is a warrant to force me to live with the state just because you are afraid of everyone around you.

I neither want to force you to do a thing, or even think of you at all, billy, because I don’t give two flying fucks about you. I am only discussing this here because of your striking rudeness, and I won’t discuss further on roberta’s blog. I have been trying to have a civil conversation with her, to dissuade her from following the likes of you down the sewer hole.

That doesn’t matter

Nothing you say does, to me. Because everything you say is drenched in wishful thinking

— you cannot force me to live the implications of your fears

Not my fears.Provable, demonstrable reality. Period, end of discussion. If you don’t like this fact, prove me wrong. Oh, wait, you cannot.

— and I don’t care: I’ll take my own chances. It’s my life: that’s what it’s for, and I know that I’m good enough to live it.

That would be the point. You’ve lived your own life, and you have chosen to see what you want to see. And ignored the truth. You can continue to do so until you die, it’s your perogative.

here’s a little clue for you, Billy, though I suspect you won’t heed it: Trying to convince ANYONE that people are capable of civility, by being the very embodiment of uncivility, makes people with brains giggle.

you are, and always will be, demonstrably, provably wrong on this subject.