The bill of Rights
I like it just fine. SO does Roberta. I’ve certainly never suggested that we not apply it to muslims.
Demonstrably, one of the greatest threats to the existence of the bill of rights is Islam. Don’t believe it? tough, you’re wrong. Respect the bill of rights? Then you should be learning about islam and ways to stop it. Don’t understand the difference between Islam and Muslims? Islam is a toxic ideology. Muslims are the people who follow that ideology to differing degrees. Islam is the problem. Muslims may or may not be on an individual basis. The problem is real and becoming more urgent every day.
Think I want to suspend the bill of rights to combat islam? you clearly haven’t paid any attention. Some people do, but I am standing here shouting about this TRYING TO AVOID THAT BEHAVIOR. Want to crusade (excuse the term) for human rights/the Bill of Rights? Open your eyes and take a serious look at the people on earth most injurious to human rights, most interested in replacing the bill of rights. Still think Islam is “Just like any other religion”? That’s purely ignorance. Ignorance can be cured. Choose the cure.
31 comments Og | Uncategorized
I really don’t understand where RobertaX gets the idea that her commenters (who disagree with her stand about a toxic religion) are trying to destroy/change/alter the Bill of Rights.
Its like she’s fighting some shadow boxer or something. Maybe something within herself. I really don’t get it.
Islam is a toxic death cult. It sanctions killing Jews and infidels. It says its okay to lie. That says to me (in the most simplest terms) the ends justify the means.
It shows itself in all its ugly glory when there is a critical mass of them in a country – just open a newspaper. When they are a vast minority, then there is few problems.
Are there good Muslims? Yes of course: those who really don’t practice or follow their religion. All they need to do is to pick another one which doesn’t sanction killing and lying.
Cond;
I think (and realize the limb I’m out on and about to saw off behind me) that what Ms X objects to is the implication (unfair) that “what do we do about…?” means “how soon can we build the camps?”
This morning, the ideas rolling around my head of THE PEOPLE making it clear to both Muslims and the government that…
Love you. Welcome to America. We have religious freedom, here. That means you have to respect OTHER peoples’ liberties in order to get them to respect YOURS. No, the noise ordinances aren’t aimed specifically at Muslims. If you can somehow make the muzzein’s call to prayer as unobtrusive as St. Mary’s matins bell, then we’re OK with it.
No, we don’t mutilate the bodies of our children. It was decided long ago that that is an unacceptable violation of the child’s individual autonomy. Same with mercy killing for apostasy: not on. Also, rape is not considered good dating etiquette. Yes, we’ve gotten so focused on the subject that immature girls acting like floozies and cock-teases can get away — fairly or unfairly — with crying “rape” when no real force was involved, and certainly no INTENT. However, behaviors exhibited by Muslim youths (and mature men) in other countries are not acceptable.
Also, that whole “honor” society thing is considered declasse. Stand on the real merits of your opinions and beliefs. Ratcheting up to raging mobs whenever you feel slighted is pretty much guaranteed to get you mocked unmercifully by our teenagers, who, if nothing else, love to take the piss out of worthy targets. Get over yourself and you’ll get along just fine. If you can join in the mockery, as any nerd can tell you, you’re pretty much made of win.
And stuff in that vein.
M
ed: Fixed.
“Love you. Welcome to America. We have religious freedom, here.”
PRE FUCKING CISELY.
here’s the point I’d like to GET to, to anyone who happens to be listening.
It is my duty as a human to make an effort to prevent people from doing harm upon one another, whenever possible. Waiting until those people have done harm gave us 6 million dead jews. A million and a half dead armenians. And so on, the list is long. Nobody’s civil rights have to be violated to prevent this from happening. When someone announces his intentions to molest children, we prevent him (or attempt to do so) from having contact with children. When someone anounces their intention to commit any kind of harm on anyone, we are duty bound to attempt to prevent it. And Islam has clearly announced it’s intention to harm not only us, personally, but our very way of life, including our bill of rights, because demonstrably, Islam, everywhere it has taken root, has removed basic human rights for everyone not a muslim and severely limited human rights FOR muslims.
As a Christian, it is my duty and responsibility to make a reasonable effort, where I can, to demonstrate the error of an ideology filled with hatred and evil, and, where possible, replace it with one of goodwill and decency. My theological laws prevent me from committing murder (NOT killing) and they make it very clear that for me to wish death or harm upon individuals is a sin which condemns me to hell, forever. And therefore, I do my damnedest to comply.
I don’t feel the need to comvert Muslims to my theology, though I would like to live such a life as to influence them to do so. That, to me, is the best conversion. But I do feel the need to ensure the safety of the proceeding generations by preventing a patently toxic ideology from taking over and destroying civilization, which Islam demonstrably does.
If they’re cute, I’ll give em a temporary pass in order to reboot their minds.
I admire your persistence Og. One of the reasons my blog has turned into a a bi-monthly post about my bowel movements is that every time I start writing something regarding politics or religion these days I get overwhelmed with a feeling of futility. I keep feeling that anyone who can’t see likes the feeling of the blindfold more than my ability to get the to peek under it.
Glad some of us are keeping it up, because I just can’t seem to give a shit anymore.
Remember when Mitt Romney was running for POTUS and a bunch’a damn fools had their bowels in an uproar over whether or not the Morman religion was a cult? Geez. I’ve known a number of Mormans. None of’em considered me sub-human because I wasn’t a Morman or wanted to take off my head because I’m a back slidin’ Methodist.
If Mormanism is a cult then Islam is THE ultimate cult.
“Islam” is not a somebody, Og, it’s a group and not a monolithic one; it is on exactly that point that your thinking leads inexorably to persecuting citizens on the sole basis of their religion.
You made a comment above — “We don’t mutiliate the bodies of our children” — that you really need to rethink. Maybe ask some of your buddies about it.
Ooops, that was Mark, not Og. I apologize for the misattribution. No male children, Mark?
Tbird,
I think the worst a mormon would do to you is either shovel the snow off your driveway before you have time to do it (yep, its true!!!) or marry more than one of your daughters simultaneously.
…and if they did marry more than one at a time its not that anyone forced them to do it.
Frankly, I’d pity the threesome… oy…
Roberta: You are speaking to the wrong people to attempt to educate us about islam. I don’t see Mark claiming Islam is a person. And islam is monolithic and unvarying. Only it’s adherents change, or vary, and they do so often at their own peril.
Circumcision is practiced as a prophylactic act. it is not specifically guided towards destroying the ability of a person to experience arousal during sexual relations, as is female genital mutilation. Way different thing.
The mormons are a little nutty, but I’m damned if they’re not some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
Islam isn’t a religion. It’s more like a political/social movement out for world conquest.
Roberta, every time you post on this subject, you reveal an even deeper ignorance as to the nature of Islam. I suggest you stop posting and educate yourself on the subject.
M
Oh, and BTW, I’m not sure you’re aware of this, but it’s no longer quite so fashionable to — as a matter of course — circumcise male children. There is a movement afoot — quite a vehement one, too — to get the practice stamped out.
Even so, it’s hardly mutilation, as Og observes.
Would you also consider piercing a girl-child’s ears mutilation?
(I do have a problem with both practices, but on a scale of zero to nuh-uh-not-happ’nin’, it’s about a 26.)
M
There’s a body of evidence that says circumcision has sound medical validity. Not so much for the men but the incidence of cervical cancer for their partners drops with circumcision. I’m sure one of the anti-circumcisers will be along soon to dispute that. It certainly is a cleanliness issue, and if you ask any man who’s been circumcised as an adult (something that happens fairly often, for a variety of medical reasons)he’d tell you he wishes he’d been circumcised as an infant. No adult female has undergone clitoridectomy specifically to remove the ability for sexual pleasure on purpose, to my knowledge. And if a guy wants his foreskin back, he can always get a tug-ahoy
“It certainly is a cleanliness issue, and if you ask any man who’s been circumcised… ”
Yep. Bingo. My mother studied to be a Medical Doctor when she went to college (traded that desire for a family and became a Medical Tech) and had her boys circumcised as children. Obviously, she was all ‘fore’ it.
Sound medical analysis and not moral principle. Didn’t seem to effect the pleasure I recieved from the gf’s I’ve been with when I was active many years ago.
Og,
Correct me if I’m mis-understanding, but it seems you’re saying “Feel free to come here, but certain aspects of your religious beliefs must be left in the old country. Muslims can’t murder their daughters for being seen in public with an unrelated male, Hindus can’t throw the widow on the funeral pyre, Christians have to work on Sunday if their agreement with their employer requires it.” If that’s the gist of what you’re saying, I say “Bravo!”
Honestly, if you want to go thru your life without drinking alcohol, eating pork, or viewing scantily-dressed women I don’t have a problem with it. When you try to prevent ME from washing down a rack of baby-backs with a cold beer at Hooters we’re gonna have a problem.
Mark D, that’s a part of it, but if you study Islam- even a bit- you understand that the whole core of the ideology is toxic and anti-human rights of any kind. I’m not going to sit around repeating it, but if you go to Jihad watch there are lits of good links with lots of good examples.
Trust me, there are a lot of people masquerading as Christians doing some nasty stuff too. I’m agin them as well. And I do everything I can to help stop them from spreading their stupid. But at the core of Christianity is a message of caring and decency; at the core of Islam is a message of unbridled hatred and intolerance. THAT is what I want to see go away.
I want to make sure I am following this correctly. Og, you are agreeing that they should leave the honor killing stuff in the old country, but you do not believe they will or can?
I am not disagreeing, just checking my reading comprehension.
McThag… the honor killing is already occuring in the United States – its just on a very small scale at the moment.
No. I think the honor killing etc. should STOP.
Roberta, I understand that most of Islam is good. Hell, I wrote a book backing up their morals, but the fact is, they place religion first and only first.
Meaning they place the Koran over your life or their own.
Some people always want to believe that there is some good in islam… there is none… get that through your thick skull once and for all. The “religion” is EVIL. “Finish and klaar” as we say in South Africa.
We see the way they are manipulating the system here as well, crying foul when their “rights” get trampled on but have no qualms trampling on others.
Roberta shows a certain liberal tendency that cannot comprehend evil at all. It is not supposed to exist therefore it cannot be. Getting that head out of the sand is difficult for them and makes it easy for islam to lop it off…
RobC: you don’t know me and you don’t know as much as I know about evil. Not even close. But hey, I am what they call a social liberal: I’m a libertarian, I don’t care about your private life as long as you do it *quietly,* *ethically* and don’t try to get me to pay for it or tell me how to live. And I don’t care how you feeeel about that.
I was writing about U. S. citizens who commit crimes and terroristic acts. I say prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law; others here have said and our host has implied their citizenship should be withdrawn. I maintain that once you let Uncle Sam do it to Those People, you and I are next. Don’t fall for “they’d never do it to *us,*” they do it to us every time we give them a chance.
Og and Mark are going off about female genital mutilation — tell me, scholars, where’s that in the Koran? It isn’t. Meanwhile, they are excusing male genital mutilation (very common in the U. S.) with hoary canards about hygiene (um, boys, you better be washing that part, too) and it’s all a side issue.
Dick tells us, “They place their religion first.” Like Christ said, “No man can serve two masters,” or was He just kidding?
Cond000whatever tells us he LURVES him some Bill of Rights, then says, “Are there good Muslims? Yes of course: those who really don’t practice or follow their religion. All they need to do is to pick another one which doesn’t sanction killing and lying.” So they can have their religion as long as they don’t have their religion? You’d be screamin’ First Amendment long and loud if any Fed said that about members of YOUR sect.
Dammit, American citizens have rights. They are also liable for criminal acts (including treason) they commit and if they happen to be soldiers, they have another whole level or responsibility. Let’s treat citizens like citizens.
Non-citizen, non-uniformed combatants are not quite so covered; most of the normal international agreements say they’re dead meat when caught.
…And I don’t care what their religion is, I care about what they DO. If ya remove the malefactors, the rest either learn better or join them. in being removed. I don’t care which but I’m not gonna ditch my Constitution over it when we have so many other tools and they have been working so well. Or did you miss that we’re still winning?
Gee, RobertaX, I REALLY do not want to get into this with you. You are such a nice lady – and I HAVE been pulling my punches with you.
I enjoy the freedom to come and go at your website. I would be glad to talk with you on all sorts of things, but I refuse to talk with you about Muslims ever again.
But please… stop here.
Let it go.
Seriously. Between us friends.
Thank you for being nice, Cond.
Roberta: Mark and I have stopped having this discussion publicly out of respect for you. We care for you and it gives us agita to upset you. If you seriously want to have this discussion, I have offered, and the offer still stands. We have heard the two notes to your song: “It’s Un-American!” and “You (catholics, jews, rosicrutians, atheists, hen teasers) do the same or worse!” Those two notes are demonstrably false, tedious, and not cogent to the discussion. I can fisk every comment you have just made, in my sleep, and you will move on to other strawmen. If you want to open your mind and learn, great. Let’s talk. If all you have is “it’s unamerican!” then I challenge you to tell me how you get to decide for me what IS American.
We are perfectly satisfied to drop the whole subject, and have done so. I was looking forward to the end of the Agita, because listening to the most likely victim of this hideous evil defend it’s right to exist is nothing but agita for decent people. So I can drop this, and move on, and you can be smug in your inherent rightness or we can have the discussion as civilized humans. Your decision to make. I’m utterly capable of destroying every one of your discussion points with sledgehammer force, but I will not.
“RobC: you don’t know me and you don’t know as much as I know about evil. Not even close.”
How on earth do you deduce that? Come to my valley and meet it incarnate. Living in Africa makes you aware of evil at a very young age.
Apologies OG…
No sweat, rob. Having been on the continent,I know what you mean.
Og: just avoid me, then.
I was, roberta. You came here.