A day like today
as my uncle used to say, made you glad you didn’t winter kill.
Easter is the most important holiday to Christians, because it is the moment of our redemption. A lot of people have issues with Easter because it is based on a saxon pagan holiday- but if you look at the roots of Christianity, there is plenty of good reason for the integration of the so called “pagan” holidays into the Christian holidays. The idea of a “Gospel” account is in fact a pagan invention, just borrowed by the authors of the gospels. Likewise, the Pagan rites of spring were so embedded in the culture of the time, and they were so important to the people of the time, the Church wisely integrated them and taught, correctly so, that the celebrations they integrated were simply celebrations of Christianity before the arrival of Christ. So Easter, which was originally Oestre, the Saxon Goddess of Fertility, became integrated and is celebrated today both as a rite of spring and the moment of our redemption, which gave a sense of solidity and continuity to Christianity that it would have lacked otherwise. The history and tradition of the Catholic Church have always been steeped in formerly pagan rituals for very good reasons that I’m perfectly OK with because I know them and understand them, because they came from the Creator to people ignorant of Christ at the time.
Below the fold is a discussion of the Cantalamessa dustup, if you don’t want to read a long preachy post you might want to leave and go see what Brigid is up to.
Tam has a post about Cantalamessa and his Good Friday Sermon.
I can’t but agree, I expect this is one of the most egregious examples of stupidity in the church; the correspondence in question may have been an interesting subject for a private conversation and discussion, but not a sermon.
The same people who will screech loudly about the misrepresentation of political facts by newspapers will buy on the surface anything that those same papers will say about kiddy diddling priests. Roberta specifically posts:
Y’know, the voluntary funding of a global organization that has SOPs that put celibate men of unknown sexual predilections in close and unsupervised contact with children and which has a long-term pattern of shielding said men from the the consequences of their actions when things go a bit off-track is not a choice I, personally, would make, no matter what wonderful goodness said organization also performs.
Roberta, so far as I know, is not a Catholic, so I assume this lack of knowledge is not deliberate but lack of education on the subject at hand. It is pretty typical of the kind of lack of knowledge that gets everyone’s ass in an uproar about this specific subject, and it’s mostly because nobody knows the facts. So let’s deal with this on an issue by issue basis.
1: Celibacy. At one time the issue of celibacy related to the Church wanting to hang onto the cash of priests when they died, not wanting to let their accumulated wealth drift off to relatives. This is no longer the case, and in fact in the case of most but diocesan priests, there is a vow of poverty. Dowry no longer has anything to do with it. Celibacy in priests is necesary because a Catholic Priest is a priest 24/7. Remember those days in your youth (or maybe like me you still do them now, from time to time or even regularly?)when you worked 70- 80- hours or more in a week, busted your butt helping friends do one thing or another, and still managed to get in a couple hours of home improvement here and there?
yeah. That’s what a priests life is, all the fucking time, every day, all day. The work may not be physically arduous (for some it is. Spend a week at a Monastery retreat)but it is constant and taxing. the prayer requirements alone are staggering; I still have my breviary here on the shelf, and if I still took the time for all the proscribed prayers I would get about two hours sleep a night.
The fact that priests are celibate owes to the fact that they are acting in the persona of Christ, or are at least supposed to try to. Admittedly, this is a difficult pair of sandals to fill. Additionally, the emotional, spiritual, and horological demands on the Priest are such that no specific commitment to an individual is even possible let alone practical. Not only would it not be fair to the spouse of the priest, it would result in broken marriages almost by default. Those who doubt the utility of celibacy in the Catholic Clergy have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of the job they are doing. These are not presbyterian ministers or rabbis who have jobs during the week to suppliment their income and run their kids back and forth to soccer practice here.
As for “unknown sexual predilections”, well, that’s a lie people tell themselves to place the blame on someone else. If you see someone you suspect of kiddy diddling and you don’t do something about it, it’s YOU who are at fault. Nobody has ever made it to the priesthood whose “sexual predilections” were unknown, ever. The fact that some priests may, at root, be gay, is something that is widely known and not ignored. Are all gay men child molesters? No? Should we stop gay men from being around children because of their “Sexual predilections”? No. My experience is that the selfsame people who would claim a celibate priest should never be around children seem to think it’s perfectly OK for gay people to teach children, and they have it half right.
Sexual predilections are supposed to be supressed in a celibate priest. Most do. Being human, some do not. But let’s look at numbers:
The incidence of Child molestation in the general public is higher than among priests, children are statistically safer among the clergy than they are among their own parents and step parents.
A “Standard operating practice” of putting priests (or ANYONE) in unsupervised contact with children does not exist in America. The VIRTUS program is MANDATORY for all adults who work in any position which brings them into contact with children. This program, in which I have particpated, does ALL THE RIGHT THINGS. Here’s a few frinstances:
No child may be alone with any adult, ever.
No activity will take place, or even be planned, that does not have adequate adult representation so that the above rule cannot be followed.
And etc.
The program works and is being widely adopted even among non catholics. A few who should be l;ooking at it seriously are the baptists who have a very specific type of problem, and protestants in general, who are far more active than the Catholics in the respect of child molestation and abuse, but hardly anyone hears about it. Finally, look at pedophiles and priestsby Philip Jenkins , if you’d like a good understanding of what’s going on in the world of sex abuse.
As for “No matter what wonderful goodness”, let me posit this question: How many child molesters, by percentage, are there in the organizations you do support? Odds are good that there are more there than in the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church has a whole MANDATORY program to report, correct, and eliminate the situation. Does the organization you belong to have a mandatory program? Should it?
I’m not apologizing for kiddy diddling priests. As far as I’m concerned, they should all be sent to hell posthaste. But kiddy diddlers in general should, not just priests, and there are far more among the general populus than in the church, and nobody else is doing one damned thing about it. The Catholic church is.
22 comments Og | Uncategorized

Annnnd, Happy Easter Og.
I agree with you OG. I’m not catholic. Still, I have quite a few catholics as close friends and know more than a couple priests of that faith quite well through them.
The MSM has been beating up on the catholic church for decades in many ways. This is the only issue that has gained much traction so they are beating it hard, even with the lengths the church as gone to to correct what problem there was. It will never be enough for the MSM. With so much the MSM has lied to us about, why do so many believe them, now, on this issue?
-I don’t have an issue with the (supposed) celibacy of priests. I do have an issue when they ignore that part of the rules. It’s not like nobody told them.
-I don’t give money to any church, in part because most of ’em have lousy track records and poor oversight when it comes to keeping adults from diddling kids (or meddling in marriages to their own benefit).
-In re pedophile priests, most news reports stem from actual court cases and/or arrests. Reporters are not making that up (they’re too lazy). Claiming “others do it, too” is not a defense. Them what do all need to be thrown to the wolves. I could see my way clear to using real wolves if we could be sure it wouldn’t make them ill.
Preying on the innocent is wrong. One might think the religious minded would think it a sin, as well.
Pedos in orgs I support: the miserable IB3W prolly has some, but I don’t support them by choice (gotta eat and that’s where the work was). That leaves the Indiana Historical Radio Society and the NRA. IHRS doesn’t pay any officer of the club, so they’re okay. NRA? I figure a kid alone with an NRA instructor’s probably in a good position to be taken seriously saying NO.
“Pedos in orgs I support”
Fact is, you do not know. If there are 10000 people in that organization, probably five of them are molesters, and odds are at least one of them is a woman. Female sexual abuse of minors may be the least reported crime in America.
That incidence is higher than the Catholic church. Where is their program? Why not attack them?
“Claiming “others do it, too†is not a defense”
Didn’t actually read the post, did you?
Very illuminating, Og.
Though I am Catholic. I am a relatively unlearned in regards to the inner workings of the church.
I too have gotten the immpression that the Priests were riddled with that form of behavior.
Thanks for the perspective changing post.
Thanks for that
Yes, Og, I read it.
I’m done now. I have misread this as as a discussion of sexual predation and that’s not what it is.
Forget it. I’m all grown up now and heavily armed and I don’t have kids: I don’t have a dog in this fight any more.
“I don’t have a dog in this fight anymore” Well, you do, sort of, the one you brought in with you.
In the past, you have cast aspersion on anyone who suggested- including me- that islam needed to be looked at with a jaundiced eye, comparing them with the Five Tribes on more than one occasion. The unarguable fact is, that not only does Islam not have any programs for risk reduction where children are concerned, but the abuse of children is commonplace and accepted and in some Islamic societies, promoted.
Additionally, each time someone makes reference of the idea of holding our elected officials accountable for the damage that they do future generations, you jump in with both feet and attack any possible “solution” that doesn’t meet with your approval. (no, I’m not equating the theft of our childrens futures with child molestation, the one is evil in the instance, the other is evil in volume. What sinks a battleship harder, 900 6″ diameter holes all located where they can be found, or a trillion half inch holes scattered everywhere?) But in this instance, you are not only anxious to see that the individuals in question are punished, but you yourself offer to bring the wolves; and further, reccomend that the single institution that has done the most good with the least resources for the most people anywhere, ever, be defunded, while you admittedly fund organizations that likely, statistically, have a higher incidence of the same behavior, but have no risk reduction programs and no intent to institute any.
Feel free to de-link me again, so that you no longer have to hear what i have to say. I will not be offended nor surprised, since I am pretty well beyond those things- I only do what I can to set the record straight where and when I can, and anyone who will listen will listen, and anyone who will disagree had better show up well armed with demonstrable contrary facts.
Og, we just don’t agree about this. Or a lot of things.
Disagreement is when one person has an opinion and another person has a different opinion. Disagreement is not when one person has facts and the other person dislikes those facts, and so chooses to dismiss them out of hand. Disliking what I say will not make it wrong.
Priests or preachers never molest children in your word? No person in authority ever does bad things to their charges? Sure wish I lived there when I was little.
“Dislike what you say.” Umm, I’m no fan of olly-olly-oxen-free for adults who molest children — and now that you mention it, I take a dim view of pogroms, too.
I am a real big fan of shootin’ malefactors one at a time, with full attention to their cute little individual personal selves. I assume most folks are not ambitious enough to be very evil; the ones who are, why, their own finger is on the trigger, IMO.
It’s your blog, Og; you win by default. But not everyone who disagrees with you is wrong or irrational.
“Priests or preachers never molest children in your word? No person in authority ever does bad things to their charges?”
Please take a moment and copy/paste the place where I said that.
“Sure wish I lived there when I was little.”
And here we come to the crux of the matter. Something bad happened to ME, and therefore ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE BAD, and I reject them, and condemn, out of hand, all of them,and their message, no matter what decent people they may be, nor how important their message is.
“Umm, I’m no fan of olly-olly-oxen-free for adults who molest children — and now that you mention it, I take a dim view of pogroms, too.”
That displays a misunderstanding of the point of the post that can only be described as heroic.
“It’s your blog, Og; you win by default. But not everyone who disagrees with you is wrong or irrational.”
No. Only those who are wrong, and irrational.
At any point anyone is welcome to come here and debate me, on any subject, point by point. When they prove me wrong, I acknowledge it, and immediately assume their position. It happens, but rarely. And it’s necesary to use facts and reason. Almost invariably, those who cannot are those whose judgement is clouded by pain, anger, and fear.
I literally tremble in fear even as I type this; fear that I might offend or upset someone for whom I have great respect. I’m trying very, very hard here to light a candle. I am filled with deepening sorrow that you can only see to curse the darkness.
Og, no. You can’t be reasoned with over an unprovable set of beliefs and I am not gonna try.
I have no beliefs whatsoever on any of these subjects. I am in posession of facts alone. Proveable facts, Every. Single. One.
You base your views on beliefs, and your beliefs are based on mostly lies. Lies other people have told you, perhaps, lies you tell yourself, perhaps. I can’t fix that for you. I can offer to show you the truths that I have discovered. If you’re more comfortable with your beliefs than uncomfortable facts, there’s nothing I can do about that but hope and pray you don’t come to harm because of that.
Og, priests have molested children and been shielded by the Church. It’s a fact.
Preachers and teachers have done the same and been shielded or wrist-slapped, too.
I disapprove of them all.
Of course those are facts.
I have never disputed them. I have invited you to copy/paste any place where I have disputed that; I never would dispute a provable fact. But those facts have nothing to do with the predominant point of the post.
What’s the big deal? Everyone can see the point who will look at it. The Church is the bugbear of the MSM, and like good little apparatchiks we all follow the Media plans and pile on the church anytime they tell us to do so. Forget that they are the only people trying to fix it.
Monkey, it really is two minutes hate, and all the good little apparatchiks, as you say, line up to hate the Catholic Church. Deliberate ignorance of the facts help in maintaining the illusion of the church as evil, and the imager of Goldstein is complete.
The relentlessness of the assault on Catholicism parallel’s the Left’s assault on conservatives, and some simply don’t get it yet.
Cultural Marxists (Hitchens and Dawkins) MAKE the story in the link above. Do not let the well-known anti-Islamic stance of one of them to make you believe he’s consistent. He’s always been a man of the Left, and in this anti-Catholic crusade he’s just as likely make use of jihadis to help him.
Pascal,
I’d like to see that bastard, Dawkins, go and live in Saudi Arabia and see how long he’ll be able to spew his atheistic filth (yep, that idiot religion that bases its ‘God doesn’t exist’ crap off of junk science – never mind the fact that Dawkins is a lackluster evolutionary biologist and doesn’t know shit beyond his field of expertise). Like most idiot libtards, he keeps shooting at the wrong target.
Stupid fucking asshole.
Excuse my french. I’m just sick and tired of the lefties at the moment.
I feel better now. Thanks!
I’m just so tired of the same old shit. Nevermind that the Church is the only (ONLY) organization doing ANYTHING about this. Nevermind that the incidence among priests is lower than any other group. Nevermind that most molesters are family members. nevermind any of that- let’s just jam our fingers in our ears and point at the church and revel in our righteous indignation at the institutional evil of Catholicism. Real nice.
Yes, I’m with you on this Og. I’m struggling to expand upon it. Maybe after vacation is over. Meanwhile, here’s an excerpt of another’s opinion today that partially addresses your beef.
He doesn’t come out and explicitly say the Sinister Media’s anti-Church crusade is deliberate. He merely calls it contradictory. I don’t know why he stops short of the stronger charge.