The measure of a man’s real character
is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.-Thomas Babington Macaulay.
In the post wednesday I opened a can of worms by making the statement that all women deserve to be treated like ladies. Apparently, many disagree.
Apparently, more people than I thought were assholes.
It is a man’s own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.-Gautama Buddha
Look, people, Charity means nothing if you do it for the public acclaim, or for the tax deduction. Doing the right thing is of no value if it’s for an audience, and being a gentleman is worthless if you only practice it on people who deserve it. It’s easy to hold the door for the hot blonde with the pretty smile. It’s easy to treat your Mom like a lady.
it is precisely the women who DO NOT seemingly deserve your gentility who need it most. And there is no greater satisfaction, to me, than going out of my way to be especially gracious to the most annoying person I meet in a given day.
When you decide that a given woman is not worthy of being treated like a lady, you take on the role of God. You believe you know enough about that woman, whoever she is, to make a value judgement that she does not deserve to be treated properly. me, I’m not messing with the Creator.
This doesn’t mean treating women like china dolls, wrapped in tissue and packaged in styrofoam. It means being polite. Being kind. Opening building doors, closing car doors. Making sure she is seated first at dinner. Making sure she orders first. That sort of thing.
it also doesn’t mean being some kind of humorless sexless victorian dweeb. You can treat a woman with respect and argue with her. Or flirt. Or tell bawdy stories or sing bawdy ballads, even, if you have arrived at that level of relationship, and you are sure the subject of the “entertainment” is appropriate to the relationship. Gentility is not a straightjacket.
No, I don’t care how you act around your family and friends. I don’t have any interest in telling anyone what to do. OA accused me of “making a strong statement”. In fact, I made a true statement. he then accused me of “painting myself into a corner”. it seems I have; a corner where the few remaining gentlemen live. I’m perfectly happy here; it’s a place where men do what is right because it’s right, and don’t do what they damned well feel like, just because they “feel” like it. You want to treat other people’s wives, mothers, daughters as less than ladies, go ahead. God apparently loves classless pieces of shit, he made so many. If people think I’m stupid because I treat women like ladies when “they” don’t think those women deserve it, I’ll wear their “Stupid” as a badge of honor.
26 comments Og | Uncategorized
I treat ALL women like six foot blondes with DSLs, PSAs and BFTs.
Desperation knows no bounds.
Well-said, Og. I agree.
“The measure of a man’s real character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.-Thomas Babington Macaulay. ”
Nice point, though I do think that the most important judge of ones character is yourself (and God, of course).
Self-respect and a Positive Perspective on the world around you will get more than just tarnished (badly pitted and rutted comes to mind) over time if you indulged yourself with things forbidden when no one is looking.
Good thoughts and Good deeds are the life blood of a long and productive life. Otherwise its merely ‘a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing’.
I try to teach my students… there are some things you do, if not for others, then out of self respect. Treating people with courtesy and respect is one of them.
For me, treating women with genteel respect is part of what makes me… me. Not all women deserve it, and not all women want it, but to do less on my part would change me into something I do not wish to be, even if only a small amount.
I give some benefit of the doubt to all the people I meet. In particular, I treat all women like ladies, until they prove they don’t deserve it. Any women who don’t deserve it, I avoid whenever possible.
My wife has a female friend who isn’t very bright and is very annoying, to put it mildly. When my wife does something with this friend, I always manage to be somewhere else.
“be somewhere else”
My point exactly. If you can’t make the effort because someone is such a shit, avoid that person like the plague.
Sorry I missed that bit of fun in the prior thread, but I must agree with every bit of this post.
So many men have given up, or have never been taught the art of, being a man. In fact, in these times when the man is being marginalized from every faction, it’s more important than ever that someone carry the fire. Amongst the Neanderthals you, Og, are the fire-bringer.
Keep bringing it.
Well said indeed.
I was always taught that EVERY woman should be treated like a lady until the point that they proved themselves to be otherwise. Besides, it doesn’t cost a penny to be polite to someone. As a matter of fact, it’s much easier than being a asshat…….
Spot on Og.
IIRC the original bone of contention revolved around treating Nancy Pelosi as a lady. I wonder if there’s a misunderstanding of what treating someone like a lady entails. It doesn’t mean you have to pretend to respect her as a member of Congress, or pretend you think she does a fine job as such. It doesn’t mean you don’t think she should be hanged as a traitor, it just means you won’t demean her by parading her thru the streets naked on the way to the gallows.
Do I understand you correctly?
You treat Nancy like any other lady. You even offer her a hand to steady her on the way to the noose.
“It doesn’t mean you have to pretend to respect her (Mrs. Pelosi) as a member of Congress, or pretend you think she does a fine job as such. ”
If it was Barbara Boxer, its not a good idea to call her “Ma’am”.
Is there not a difference between respect and civility?
One common definition of respect: “an attitude of admiration or esteem”.
I cannot respect Nancy Pelosi.
I can and will treat her civilly regardless of her actions.
Does this fit within your parameters?
Women are individuals, just like everyone else. A civilized person has certain standards of behaviour, regardless of who they deal with. Civility where civility is returned being one of them.
I open doors, I hold out a steadying hand, but no one has a right to expect or demand that. A woman has no particular *right* to be seated first, to order first, to have my coat spread over a puddle. We do these things because it’s a gracious gesture from the strong. On an evolutionary behaviour level, it’s probably a reproductive tactic that indicates the ability to care for mate and offspring. Nothing mystical about it.
Charity can be done because it is good business as well as for personal satisfaction. It doesn’t invalidate the good that it does. Motivations matter, but less than results.
Since I don’t believe in your god, I don’t really care what he thinks, nor do I worry about “usurping his role”. I am a man and I have my own judgement: I am perfectly within my right to have an opinion and make judgements about people.
If going out of you way to be cheery to people who annoy you brightens your day, then fine, but don’t pretend it’s anything other than a self-interested, perhaps even malicious act. If being overtly cheerful in the face of grumpy or nasty people turns your crank, have at it, but there’s nothing special about it.
I often agree with you, but sometimes you’re almost as bad as people on the other end of the spectrum trying to dictate to people how they should be. I do agree with you that the best route is typically avoiding interaction with people who are genuinely irredeemable.
bastige: please copy paste where I said I wanted to force anyone to do anything.
I’m afraid there are a great many non-religious who, with the help of MFM and our skools, still believe that all religious want to force their beliefs and behaviors on others.
I was reminded of this when a troll recently asserted that belief in Allah was the same as belief in God. I guess it was his way of trying to pull the same stunt. The difference between submission (Islam by definition, and many other religious institutions infested by Leftists) and free-will (what the Judeo-Christian God allows his creations as they discovered wisdom too often the hard way) either escaped his notice, or he was hoping I’d forget.
I’m perfectly happy here; it’s a place where men do what is right because it’s right, and don’t do what they damned well feel like, just because they “feel†like it. I’m right there with you.
I am a husband, father and grandfather. I treat the women I meet as I’d want my wife, daughter and granddaughter treated. There is no behavior on the womans part (barring a physical attack. Then all bets are off) that will make me treat her disrespectfully. I may not actually feel that respect but she will never guess from my behavior. It is the duty of the strong to exercise self control at all times and especially to those weaker than themselves so their very strength doesn’t lend itself to abusive behavior.
Six suns it up for me.
I don’t have to “respect” a woman to treat her like a lady. I don’t even have to like her. Example: A woman comes onto a busdragging her brood behind her. They’re disruptive, all of them, rude, nasty. She is clearly unconcerned about their behavior, and clearly has no respect for her fellow passengers or anyone. And I had no respect for her.
So I stood up and gave her my seat. Because that’s what a gentleman does. One of her kids called me a sucker, and another called me a “cracker faggot”.
I didn’t care how they judged me. I cared how I judged myself.
” One of her kids called me a sucker, and another called me a “cracker faggotâ€.”
Hmmmmm…. I wonder how those kids did on their EOG’s.
http://bigarmwoman.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/sobering-conversation-of-the-year/
If you are a Pharisee, ostentation and public displays of charity mean everything precisely because you do it for public acclaim – and maybe for the tax deduction. Or just to show-off to your friends in the Senate.
But treating Nancy Pelosi like a lady is incorrect and of no benefit – one should treat a monster like a monster no matter what the layers of outward camouflage and skin-grafting attempts to conceal.
And this is why I’ve always thought you were the bee’s knees.
That’s because you get it, Bus lady.
So, you’re saying I should employ ordinary Southern good manners, as taught to me by my Mom and Dad?
yes, just.