I always get
A good deal of flack about my stand on gay marriage.
The recurrent theme is ‘Don’t they have a right to be happy?”
Well, let me put it to you this way.
NO.
Nobody has any more ‘Right” to happiness than they have a “Right” to a bigscreen TV. Happiness is not a guarantee of the constitution. If you think it’s the governments business to make legislation so a tiny portion of the population has their hearts desire, then you are a moron, and you should not vote. You might avoid breeding as well, you’re genes are broken badly and should not be passed on. “but they want the same legal rights as married couples” Fine. Let them fight to get that same legal status, Until they have it, they’re fucked. Guess who else is fucked? Almost everyone. Smokers who’d like to light up where they please. People who’d like to buy a nice diesel in the US. Property owners who’d like to build things on their land but who are stopped from doing so by outlandish EPA restrictions. Get used to it, you morons, life is tough. You want to regulate makiing life less tough just for you? get in line, motherfuckers. A lot more people have a lot more REAL rights that are being infringed, what you want is simply that: A want. To throw kinks and twists and turns into the law so that you can be pleased is like border jumping, it’s an insult to the people who use the system to do things the “Normal” way. “But Og, don’t those people at least deserve the same happiness as married couples?
That comment- which I hear all the time- is high on the list of ignorant things a human can let come out of it’s mouth. Look around you at the married couples you know. Unless you’re living in Stepford, the odds are that all those people have their own problems, and to suggest that gay couples do not is ignorant in the extreme. ” I don’t see what the problem is” The problem is that Gay marriage is not about them seeking happiness, period., it’s about a government mandated wedge, made for a vanishingly small portion of the population, purpose built to destroy the churches who will not accept their lifestyle. “I don’t see that, at all. All the gay people I know are really nice” You don’t see it because you choose to ignore it. ‘og, you’re crazy, None of this is true”
Wait and see. You won’t have to wait long. This is one of the many tools our betters are using (And the most wookiesuited among us embrace it wholeheartedly) to replace Christian faith with the new religions of Political correctness, environmentalism, social welfare, hatred of the rich, and acceptance of the insanely immmoral. Feel free to dismiss me as an idiot. No, being correct is not it’s own reward, it is its own punishment.
Ofr course, bitching about it is what everyone does instead of something, so let me do this: If you’re gay, and you have a commitment you’d like to make to someone, you know- if your love for that person is true- that the commitment needs no recognition by anyone. If you want a ceremony to mark that commitment that is visible to your friends, (A concept which I personally never understood,) I am an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church. I will marry you myself, if that is your desire. If it makes you happy, that’s wonderful. And that will show me that your aim is only the commitment between you and your partner, and not the damage you can do to others. Also, if you want all of the rights a spouse would have of legal guardianship etc, I would be tickled to help you achieve that in any way that is possible for me. Hell, if you want to climb up on the dresser snd dive-fuck your partner on the bed…. well, there, you’re on your own- because I don’t give a shit about the mechanics of what you do, so long as you’re not harming your partner, yourself, children, or animals.
BTW I put stepping out on your spouse in the “Harming children” category, FYI.
Also BTW I get the “federal law doesn’t recognize gay marriage so couples can’t file jointly” discussion as well. Look, if you’re making enough money that not being able to file jointly is a legitimate financial hardship for you, you’ll get no sympathy here. Look at the tax structure and calculate the difference, it doesn’t seem to me as if it makes any appreciable difference until you get into the 400,000 income area.
That’s my soapbox for this week. Now fuckoff. I’ll see you at the range when it gets warm again, lord knows I need some percussive therapy.
23 comments Og | Uncategorized
Nothing to add. I appreciated the imagry of it being warm enough to go to the range.
I have a cousin who is gay. I tolerate this, even though I don’t approve. I accept this is who my cousin is. What the gay rights crowd would have is a world where I am forced to approve.
I’m not saying I’m better than he is, because I’m not. I’m not a saint. I’m still alive, I’m not Catholic and I’ve never performed a miracle.
There is a clear compelling benefit to society from recognizing heterosexual marriages. Originally the term bastard wasn’t just an insult. It was a statement of fact. Males who grow up with fathers as a group are better members of society than those who don’t.
Sheesh, it’s marriage not ~happiness~, and except for a few fleeting seconds of ecstasy every other month if you’re lucky, it’s WAR…
Dirt: Truer words are seldom spoken.
We went to the county for our marriage license. Then we took that license to my community non denominational church, which agreed to perform a ceremony. Then a few years later we wanted to get married in the Catholic Church, but we had to agree to raise our kids Catholic since my wife is not Catholic. We agreed, and then we were married in that church. No where in that process does it (or should it)matter if we are same gender, same race, same ethnicity, same class, same political party, etc. If we want to be married in the Catholic Church we have to follow the Catholic rules. If we don’t want to follow those rules, we can’t be married in that church.
Still not sure why I had to get the license from the county, but let’s keep it local at the least and get the fed.gov out of the wedding planner business.
Everytime I hear the term “gay” marriage I substitute “bi racial”, or “Jew” or “slave” and get very queasy. What if we just talk about marriage, and leave it at that?
People should marry if they want, regardless of whether it makes them happy; regardless of whether others like or approve of their marriage. Nobody has the right to be happy, but nobody has the right to keep people from trying to be happy either.
I understand your point that the agenda is to destroy the Church and that the Christian faith and churches are under attack, I even agree that marriage (and the devaluation of marriage)is being used as a weapon in that war. But I don’t think the Church is that easily destroyed, nor is marriage the biggest threat to it. My marriage and my faith are not dependent on the marriage of any of my neighbors, regardless of the # of genders involved.
I also think we tamper with marriage at our peril. I think all civil unions should be just that, civil unions with a license issued by the county that has some legal implications. Marriage is reserved for what you do at the church of your choice that will in fact “marry” you. If you go the justice of the peace route you are in a civil union with legal implications. If you go to church you are in a sacramental union with spiritual implications. If you want both, then you have to satisfy the requirements respective to each authority.
Good post, thanks.
Updated to add.
“to replace Christian faith with the new religions of Political correctness, environmentalism, social welfare, hatred of the rich, and acceptance of the insanely immmoral.”
You’re not an idiot, I get that this is happening; and that people are susceptible to these false faiths. They are tempting and seductive as hell. But they are false, are being proven to be false, and ultimately will give way to new (and even worse) temptations. I just want to be careful that my love and pursuit of the truth doesn’t lead me to bigotry, intolerance, and ultimately hatred. That’s no way to live.
“But I don’t think the Church is that easily destroyed, nor is marriage the biggest threat to it. My marriage and my faith are not dependent on the marriage of any of my neighbors, regardless of the # of genders involved.”
I don’t think so either, I know. This is not conjecture, or an opinion, it is a fact.
“Everytime I hear the term “gay†marriage I substitute “bi racialâ€, or “Jew†or “slave†and get very queasy”
So gayness is just like being a jew? or being biracial? Gayness is like slavery? If you get queasy it is because you have already succumbed to the “acceptance” dogma of the party appratchiks. Gayness is nothing like those things, and never will be. period. No black person decides to be black. No jew can suddenly decide never to have been a jew. No slave could ever decide “I’m free now”
“I also think we tamper with marriage at our peril. I think all civil unions should be just that, civil unions with a license issued by the county that has some legal implications.” On this we can completely agree. The ONLY reason the FedGov is interested in being in the marriage business is to replace faith in God with faith in it. It didn’t start out that way, but that is what it has become.
“My marriage and my faith are not dependent on the marriage of any of my neighbors, regardless of the # of genders involved.”
This is another argument I get, and it’s specious. When the FedGov says you are only married by it’s authority, and it has the authority to tell you how to live, and what you can or cannot worship, tell me how that doesn’t affect you then.
Look around and keep your eyes open. I’m not making this shit up, I’m reporting it.
As to “Nobody has the right to be happy, but nobody has the right to keep people from trying to be happy either.” When’s the last time you were at the license bureau in your state? BTW, Tony, I’m not trying to be a dick (it just comes natural) I understand your points- but all I can say is, back not too long ago, I thought like you did. You will come to the same conclusions yourself, sooner or later.
Also: Don’t even get the idea that I’m trying to be some kind of holier than thou hypocrite. If there’s a nasty thing a person can do, I’ve done it, probably while eating a Wendy;s triple and chugging jack Daniels. I have enbraced the Golden Calf, as they say, Ankle and Thigh and Upper half, and I know from sinning and doing wrong. Shit, I wrote the book.
“So gayness is just like being a jew? or being biracial? Gayness is like slavery? If you get queasy it is because you have already succumbed to the “acceptance†dogma of the party appratchiks. Gayness is nothing like those things, and never will be. period.”
You may be right about succumbing; although I hate to think it. I don’t know enough about “gayness” to know if that’s true or not. I find it hard to believe people would choose to put themselves at the margins of society like that, but people do a lot of strange things. If gayness isn’t like those things, then what is it?
“No black person decides to be black. No jew can suddenly decide never to have been a jew. No slave could ever decide “I’m free nowâ€.” True; are you sure a person can decide “I’m gay” or “I’m not gay”? My assumption is there is little choice to it, but I have been wrong before.
“This is another argument I get, and it’s specious. When the FedGov says you are only married by it’s authority, and it has the authority to tell you how to live, and what you can or cannot worship, tell me how that doesn’t affect you then.”
Oh, it affects me alright, more than ever; it means I have to be willing to “marry” my wife and practice my faith even upon the pain of imprisonment, punishment and/or death. I’m glad I havne’t had to to make that choice, I’m not sure I would have the courage to be a martyr.
It seems to me antebellum slaves in the South got married, and worshipped, and educated themselves for that matter, in defiance of authority. Didn’t matter what the authorities said, it mattered what they believed. Which is kind of what I thought you advised people to do, get “married” as a sign of committment to one another and in the spirit of true love. Right now we are giving people the same choice slaves had; follow your conscience but pay the price. I think we need to lower the price is all.
““Nobody has the right to be happy, but nobody has the right to keep people from trying to be happy either.†When’s the last time you were at the license bureau in your state? ”
I must not understand the context of your question. I got married 20 years ago and nobody tried to stop me even though we were different ages, genders, races, with different politics and from different economic classes. Are people being denied marriage licenses now for some reason, or discouraged from getting married? Or are you just implying that marriage and happiness are incompatible (of which there is ample evidence, no doubt)?
I’ll keep lookind around, trying to keep my eyes open, and checking back here for your reporting. I appreciate what you are doing and saying, even if I haven’t come to full and complete accord.
“True; are you sure a person can decide “I’m gay†or “I’m not gayâ€? ”
Are you absolutely positive they cannot? Are you willing to destroy the constitution and the Christian faith to find out?
“I must not understand the context of your question”
I’m being a smartass. If four hours in the license bureau is not denying a person their right to be happy I cannot imagine what is.
“I think we need to lower the price is all.”
So you think Marriage should be cheapened? You’re getting your wish, at warp speed.
Nope, I’m not absolutely positive they cannot. I’m only absolutely positive that God loves us, even though I don’t understand what he sees in us. I’m also not absolutely positive that this issue is destroying the Constitution or the Christian faith. Mostly I think people are destroying the Constitution and the Christian Faith out of a a desire to get something for nothing. We want the perks without accepting the responsibilities; which may be true for most marriages as well, come to think of it.
Nope, I don’t think marriage should be cheapened. I think we should lower the price for following your conscience. I think marriage should be revered as a sacramental union between two people who love one another, are committed to each other, and want to celebrate that union and that commitment as a way of praising and loving God. Frankly, by that defintion I think there are damn few actual marriages out there, regardless of the gender (or the religion)of the people involved. But I don’t think all those marriages that don’t meet the ideal cheapen marriage.
I agree that we are screwing up everything we have inherited from the Fathers of the Church and the Founding Fathers of this country. There’s nothing that says this experiment in freedom called the USA is sacred and will last foever. And maybe you’re right that allowing people of the same gender to marry is the straw that breaks the camels back. But I find it hard to believe the fate of the Republic and the Faith hinge on who gets married. I firmly believe the fate of the Republic and the Faith hinge on whether we ALLOW the fed.gov to tell us who can be married, or who the Church is allowed to bless as married. On that, I think we probably agree.
See, this is the difference between you and me.
You post something like this and you get agreement and reasoned discourse.
I post something like this, I get a bunch of accusations of bigotry and homophobia.
*sigh*
On the plus side, now I don’t NEED to write another word about it; all I have to do is link this post and everything’s fine.
PS I also enjoyed the imagery of it being warm enough to go to the range. If it’s that warm I can ride my motorcycle there. Oh, wait! I live in Illinois! What would I SHOOT?
*sigh*
“I’m also not absolutely positive that this issue is destroying the Constitution or the Christian faith.”
How much of your day do you spend looking at this issue? How much time do you spend researching it? have you seen what’s going on now? Doesn’t it concern you? have you plotted the progression of the “progressive” agenda, and know by projection what it’s ultimate aim is?
When you do those things, when you look at this hard, you’ll understand as I do. But you don’t actually have to do anything. Wait and see, it’ll all be true before you know it.
Ed:
“You post something like this and you get agreement and reasoned discourse.”
I don’t tolerate anything else. You should see the emails I’m getting! If I were a pansy, I’d be genuinely afraid- but the senders of the emails are the ones who are pansies, too cowardly to have their ignorant opinions displayed for the world to see.
Amen. The constitution provides for the free pursuit of happiness. However when your happiness begins to intrude on my peace I will happyily tell you ( not Og ) to fuck off.
I have absoultely had it with gays. Over sexxed turds that can’t attract women.
Range time is definitely called for. Maybe a USPSA shoot or two to clear the air.
Og, I know you’re not trying to be a dick, nor do you come across as holier than thou. In fact, you are one of the few that doesn’t come across as a bigot, which is why I am interested in what you are saying.
I don’t spend time every day researching this and figuring it out, but I do pay attention to what’s going on and the “progressive” agenda. I’m careful making projections because my experience is that we tend to project the recent past indefinitely into the future, usually just about the time the trend turns or reverses. The book “Generations” does a decent job of describing how this process has worked since Europeans landed on this continent and makes me think we are due for (if not actually engaged in) a revival of the Christian Faith in this country.
But it concerns me enough that I am running for office to try and stem the tide in my local community.
I think this article is saying what you are saying. Am I right?
http://www.catholic.com/documents/gay-marriage
“But it concerns me enough that I am running for office to try and stem the tide in my local community. ”
Dang, I wish you wouldn’t do that. You’re not nearly as suspicious, paranoid, or cynical to be of any value in any office, because people like you feel that you can accomplish things by “Reaching across the aisle”. You cannot. You also seem to be of the opinion (Dissuade me if I’m incorrect, by all means) that people are basically capable of good things, and they are not.
“I think this article is saying what you are saying. Am I right?”
No. Good article, but not even.
I’ve said that I think people are basically decent, but imperfectible; so we need to write the rules with that in mind. So I do think people are basically capable of good things.
And you might be right about being in office. I did it several years ago because I figured it was my duty to take a turn. Got blindsided quick and voted for an ordinance that wouldn’t let people park an RV on their own property. Took me all of 3 years to get it repealed, and in the process got so thoroughly disgusted with my neighbors we almost had to move out. A royal clusterfuck that taught me a lesson about reaching across the aisle. Maybe the lesson stuck, hard to say.
Unfortunately, all the really suspicious, paranoid cynics are on the wrong side working for the wrong things.
“so we need to write the rules with that in mind.”
And that is the biggest problem of all. No rules will ever prevent bad behavior or encourage good behavior. never have, never will. The idea that they can is for the most part ludicrous. It is in the enforcement of the rules that everyone always falls short.
I think it’s interesting, although probably only anecdotal, that there was a story yesterday about the “poster child couple for gay marriage” in California getting divorced. A pair of 40 year olds (now) who were together 16 years, and after 4 years of being married, they couldn’t stay together any longer. I don’t know what to make of that, if anything.