Neanderpundit

Friday 23 Mar 2012

If you own or have driven

31 comments Og | Uncategorized

31 Responses to “If you own or have driven”

1. on 23 Mar 2012 at 5:54 am   Velociman
   
   

   Try to find a Golf TDI, if the owner will part with it. At least you’ll have a hatchback.

2. on 23 Mar 2012 at 6:48 am   Mark Alger
   
   

   Had a diesel Rabbit back in the early ’80s. But our Jetta was a gasser, as was the Condom — er, Quantum — wagon.

   M

3. on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:05 am   John Venlet
   
   

   Og, have had a Passat since 2002, V6 4 Motion, still going strong. Not diesel, I know.

   My neighbor had the Passat wagon, diesel, and he could not say enough good things about it, especially in regards to mileage. He just recently traded up to the newest Toyota SUV.

   I’ve owned a number of VWs over the past 25 years, including the Rabbit, Passat, Gold and Jetta. Though all gas, they were soundly engineered.

4. on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:24 am   Professor Hale
   
   

   Just got a passat TDI last year for the wife. She loves it. My ony problem with it is the fear of mindlessly putting gasoline into the tank accidently. It would be helpfull if congress passed a law making the fuel filler neck and retail hoses equipped with some kind of “diesel only” matching mechanism. Of course, it would have to be a law because people can’t be trusted to just read the label. Maybe the Presbo can put it into his energy policy?

5. on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:39 am   Ed Hering
   
   

   “Ew ew ew! ‘Saloon’! I suppose we’re going to have scones with tea and play the grand piano!”

   –monty python quotes: the more obscure the better!

6. on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:42 am   Mike the EE
   
   

   My friend, Doc, has a diesel Jetta wagon — unfortunately he uses it in the wrong application (10 miles to work, lots of stops) and hasn’t had great luck. The handshaker transmission dumped a synchro, requiring a complete replacement. The engine sooted up, due to never getting warm and having crappy dealer support (60 miles away) — found better dealer support in the opposite direction, same distance. He bought a Subaru wagon to get to work and kept the Jetta for long trips and it is doing much better.

   You should be fine, with a long enough commute to get it hot. Good luck!

7. on 23 Mar 2012 at 8:02 am   ish
   
   

   Drove an older passat diesel the 4 years I lived in Germany. A mutt off the line, but economical and a t34 otherwise. Most of my german friends drive newer VW diesel cars (this includes Audi) and they all, wo exception, say that they’d never go back to gas cars.

8. on 23 Mar 2012 at 8:06 am   ish
   
   

   And my BIL, a heavy equip salesman, had a diesel jetta that sometimes approached 50 mpg and ran 200k wo any problems. He only traded it in on a ford truck bc of the increasingly nasty comments he was getting on the jobsites from the union guys- didn’t need the hassle.

9. on 23 Mar 2012 at 8:23 am   Ben C
   
   

   Guy I work with has a TDI Jetta. He loves the thing. Averages over 45 MPG, not unusual to get over 50. Says it has more power than he expected too, and lots of torque in the low range.

   He got the Jetta over the Passat because the Jetta did not require urea, but the Passat did.

10. on 23 Mar 2012 at 9:06 am   Og
    
    

    I wonder what the urea does to the cost of ownership, and if it’s legal to refill yourself? it’s cheap at the truck stops.

    Ed: You know I put that in just to see if the python geeks were paying attention.

11. on 23 Mar 2012 at 10:34 am   emdfl
    
    

    Buy one and run it on #2 fuel oil delivered to your house by your friendly heating oil truck, heh, heh. Don’t forget to add a quart of ATF to every 100 gallons of the stuff.

12. on 23 Mar 2012 at 10:38 am   Og
    
    

    EMDFL: I have a friend who has been doing that for years. it’s a hoot!

13. on 23 Mar 2012 at 12:01 pm   Matt B
    
    

    Myself, my dad, and my roommate all drive A4 Jetta diesels.

    My dad had a 1986 Jetta TDI that he sold to a coworker at 354K miles- and he loved it.

    I bought my 2002 almost 6 years ago with 70K on it. It now has 187K. Most reliable car I’ve ever owned. Never had it towed. Only part that failed was the starter, and since it was a stick, I just push started it. Only other things I’ve replaced were glow plugs (easy to do yourself), the EGR valve (kept throwing codes), tires, and the clutch at 170K. I average around 45 in the summer for city driving, and 50ish for highway. Best I’ve ever done is 53. And driving is fine- its got 150 ft/lbs of torque.

    So two parts are great about it- better mileage and better reliability. Just make sure to change the oil every 10K, and the timing belt every 80K and you’ll be set for years.

    My goal is 400K at least, but my dream is 500K. Both are very attainable with a well maintained car.

14. on 23 Mar 2012 at 12:30 pm   og
    
    

    matt: You’re speaking my langauge.

15. on 23 Mar 2012 at 12:44 pm   Rivrdog
    
    

    Have a good friend with a Jetta TDI, he’s a bigger fellow, and doesn’t drive it that much, but says it’s ok for long trips. He got it to tow behind his Class A super-bus motorhome. It gets in the mid-40’s to 50+ mpg.

    I drove a Peugeot 504 diesel “saloon” for 9 years, a 1976, and except for the ancillary electrics, it was a fine car, weak engine, but good torque, got about 30 mpg, good for it’s day.

    My current diesel is a 1972 M35A2 6X6 truck, gets 6 mpg.

    As to doctoring diesel, you shouldn’t have to doctor your ULSD for any Gen4 engine. Stay away from bio-diesel at over 5%. If you buy older than Gen4, the best way to doctor up the lubricity is with 2-cycle oil, in a ratio of 200:1 Use TCW3 grade to prevent carbon build-up. I have to do that with the military truck. The 2-stroke oil acts as a good top-lube and prolongs cylinder life.

16. on 23 Mar 2012 at 12:48 pm   B
    
    

    Veggie

17. on 23 Mar 2012 at 1:10 pm   Sigivald
    
    

    Well, there are others available, but the VWs are the affordable ones that are not archaic.

    (I myself drive a ’76 Mercedes diesel.)

    People seem to like ’em, except for the “Being A Volkswagen” potential maintenance nightmare part.

    Some people, like Matt, get lucky. Others don’t.

    (Also, on Professor Hale’s suggestion – unless you live in Oregon or NJ where you can’t pump your own gas, if you can’t remember “use the green pump/hose”, you have problems the Feds aren’t equipped to solve.)

18. on 23 Mar 2012 at 1:14 pm   og
    
    

    “you have problems the Feds aren’t equipped to solve”

    Quote of the day, Sigi. Thanks for the lol.

19. on 23 Mar 2012 at 1:20 pm   Professor Hale
    
    

    It worked when they switched us to unleaded. Smaller nozzles and matching gates in the filler neck.

    I haven’t had this problem yet, but some day I will be as old as Og. I need to plan for senility.

20. on 23 Mar 2012 at 1:23 pm   Og
    
    

    “but some day I will be as old as Og”

    You planning on living that long?

    As long as I can be immature, I’ll never be old.

    I am a bit surprised they don’t do something like an oblong nozzle or something, but new laws are seldom good laws.

21. on 23 Mar 2012 at 9:00 pm   Professor Hale
    
    

    Maybe it would just be a standard and not a law. Something that the petroleum institute comes up with and all the major oil companies adopt, just because it is a good idea.

22. on 23 Mar 2012 at 9:37 pm   og
    
    

    It would be a good ANSI standard. Still, people will figure out a way to fuck it up.

23. on 24 Mar 2012 at 7:44 am   Ruth
    
    

    I’d LOVE to have a chance at one. My commute is 1/2hr each way….unfortunetly I live in NY state, and the only diesel cars I’ve ever seen were out of state plates. Even the higher diesel prices might be worth it with the milage.

24. on 24 Mar 2012 at 11:33 pm   Skip
    
    

    Can someone tell me why diesel is more expensive than gasoline?
    When they crack oil, it’s one of the first off the top [ie; cheaper].

25. on 25 Mar 2012 at 12:05 am   Chris Byrne
    
    

    Og,

    Mel and I both test drove both of them last year. Actually we test drove every diesel sedan offered in the U.S.; as we would like to switch to a diesel car to go with our truck.

    We weren’t particularly impressed with either unfortunately. In particular, the transmissions in both were not great, and the motor is stupidly detuned from their performance potential (in order to differentiate them from the Audi models that share their platforms). Also the Passat and Jetta both use the same 140hp motor, even though the Passat is significantly heavier.

    Also, the Jetta just didn’t feel right getting in and out of it. The access geometry and angles were just uncomfortable.

    We actually liked the CC (which shares platform with the a6), but unfortunately they don’t offer it with the diesel.

    Oh and Audi has the A3, which uses the same basic engine as the Jetta Diesel, but tuned to 200hp (which of course means you can retune the VWs). Unfortunately, it’s a shared platform with the Golf, so it’s a bit small; and being an Audi, it’s overpriced.

    MB has the e350 BlueTec, which we quite liked… actually it’s a spectacular car, except again, for the transmission. The transmission just saps the life out of an otherwise excellent car. It’s heavily optimized for smoothness and fuel economy, and it just kills the responsiveness of the engine. It MAY be possible to reprogram the transmission with a power programmer however.

    BMW has announced that they will be bringing a couple of diesels to the U.S. next year. The UK and German press love these cars. Plenty of torque, great acceleration and good mileage. At the risk of becoming excessively repetitive, they’ll be overpriced.

26. on 25 Mar 2012 at 12:13 am   Chris Byrne
    
    

    @skip

    It’s about the taxes, additives, and the distribution networks.

    Volumes of diesel sold are much lower than gasoline, therefore they are lower priority in both production and transport.

    They make much less diesel, there are fewer dedicated diesel transport mechanisms, and they get less time on multi-fuel transport mechanisms.

    Combine that with MUCH higher state and federal taxes and tarrifs (10% to 20% higher depending on the state) on both the diesel fuel components, and on the finished blends; and you’ve got your anywhere from 5% to 20% or so price differential, depending on local taxes, and differential demans.

27. on 25 Mar 2012 at 5:54 pm   Russ
    
    

    Had a guy in my town in NJ who had his oil burner converted to gas and never took out the F. O. tank or stopped delivery. He hooked up a pump and filter and ran his diesel Peugeot on it. Well, F. O. is dyed red and his mechanic turned him in for the reward. The fine (and the reward) was substantial and both the feds and the state of NJ were involved for evasion of motor fuels tax. On the other hand, my friend Anthony ran a F. O. business and ran the trucks on the fuel oil. He kept accurate records of usage and paid the motor fuels taxes every month and that was fine by the .gov.

    Russ

28. on 26 Mar 2012 at 9:01 am   Giraffe
    
    

    A coworkers wife has a Volkwagon. I’m not sure which one, but it is a diesel. Engine went out, and they spent 6 grand on a new one. They get close to 50 for mileage but I think they spent all their fuel savings an that engine.

29. on 26 Mar 2012 at 3:44 pm   Sigivald
    
    

    skip mentioned: When they crack oil, it’s one of the first off the top [ie; cheaper].

    Well, most of the cost of fuel isn’t the cost of the actual distillation, as Mr. Byrne points out.

    (Somewhat contra Mr. Byrne, however, note that both the trucking system and trains run on diesel, so the only real difference in distribution is last-mile – and a whole lot of service stations have diesel now.

    Volume is lower than gasoline, but still so high and widespread that there are huge economies of scale from the refineries to the regional/local distribution centers, so I doubt that’s significant.)

    Further, we should note that a barrel of crude (bracketing the issue that different crudes have different structures) has various proportions of the different carbon chains.

    According to EIA’s Refinery Yield data, 44.2% of refinery output is gasoline, and 28.4% is fuel oil (diesel).

    There’s some cracking and the like to change the rough output percentages for a cost, but as far as I know nobody currently makes extra diesel from lighter chains, only the other way around.

    Another factor is that every winter people in the North and Northeast burn millions of gallons of the same fuel oil to heat their houses – so there’s a giant demand for fuel oil that isn’t comparable to the gasoline situation – and while the demand is seasonal, suppliers also buy in summer when it’s cheaper to save their own money, so the demand always has an effect.

    Every time a hippie buys a diesel “because he totally wants to run biodisel*” and then doesn’t, that’s increasing demand and thus price – given that it’s expensive to change the proportions and that every drop made now is consumed.

    But the number of people doing that is still marginal, no matter what it seems like living in Portland…

    (* Or when he buys “biodiesel” that’s B10 or B5 and doesn’t realize that’s 90 and 95% plain ordinary diesel, respectively.)

30. on 26 Mar 2012 at 7:43 pm   john b
    
    

    own an 82 jetta. Probably wouldn’t translate to your experience. Wished I had it in better shape and I’d criss cross the continent.

31. on 28 Mar 2012 at 10:07 pm   Will
    
    

    IIRC, there are two ways to refine crude oil. The difference is the output balance between diesel and gasoline. Here in the US, we utilize the method that gives the most gasoline, the EU goes the other method, to maximize the diesel output.

    The percentage of each is fixed for the two methods, you can’t decide to dial up one or the other fuels to meet public demand. You can trade unwanted output to other countries, which is done to some extent.

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