I have heard
An awful lot of “We can’t Vote our way out of this”, and in fact, that’s probably very true. There isn’t any leader charismatic enough to undo all that has been done, nor even if we could find that, to override all the burocracy that he’d have to overcome.
No, no simple vote will fix this.
What CAN happen, is that we can easily vote our way further into this; or by not voting, letting others vote our way further into this.
I have now heard four generations of my elders say exactly the same thing. “I stopped voting when X did Y, because there’s no way we can undo that shit”.
The left has gotten as far as it has with incrementalism, and the incremental move to the nanny state is very nearly complete. A powerful lot of people on the left and the right would love to see that come to pass for good and all, the left because it is their dream, the right because they want to precipitate a fighting war. of course the fighting war will never happen, because the same people who want to preciptate it are anxious to let others do the shooting for them.
As many have pointed out, Romney is no better than Obama in almost every way, but there are supreme court nominations coming up, and they are important, as we will see this week.
Incrementalism works. The gun culture has brought us back from the brink of insanity by incrementalism, and the constant and unyeilding pressure has worked. We can increment our way out of this, if we can’t vote our way out, and voting is but one increment. if we want a decent candidate, if we want a decent senate and house, we will have to increment our way back to them.
not voting, not participating, is not an option. You don’t like the choices, you got to change the choices. Those of us who are gun nuts have seen it work, and it’s still moving forward. We can increment our way out of this, we just have t understand how to use the enemy’s tools against him.
Anyone who says “If we do X we become JUST LIKE THEM!” gets the ignorant award of the year.
35 comments Og | Uncategorized

If we have not gone beyond the rubicon, we can call it back. Guns has surprised me, and if we can keep getting the controls on them rolled back, we might be able to get back.
I can’t disagree with you.
Yet how do we get the message to the RNC that we don’t want, nor need, any more McCains or Romneys?
Holding our noses and voting against the lesser of the two evils doesn’t seem to cause them to get the message.
I dunno.
Remember the post I made about two I’s?
Thanks for posting this.
We need many voices saying this.
I have to say though (not being thrilled with Romney) I cannot believe that Romney is a far left, socialist, metrosexual who plays the race card.
Can’t disagree. “withholding” a vote is a childish tantrum at best, and at worst, surrender.
It helps a great deal at the local level.
City counsel, county board, state, etc.
The more on our side at the bottom, the more they may grow to influence.
All truly bad political ideas arise from impatience, both in an active sense and a passive sense. Political change moves at a glacial pace, and those who get impatient, lose.
If we start a revolution because we’ve been pushed JUST too far into a corner, we will not win. If we give up because, while we cannot vote ourselves out of the mess that 100+ years of progressivism put us in in only one election cycle, we lose.
Be patient. Fight the long war. True progress and time are both on our side.
All you have to do is win a small victory against entropy TODAY. Tomorrow, it’s still another fight. Win that one. Worry about the day after on that day. And so on.
Just as the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step, so, too, does the long road to recovery from progressivism begin with a single vote.
We have an advantage that our predecessors in the middle of the last century did not — we know voting DOES count, and we know the Left is weak and ineffectual.
They have only won this far because nobody opposed them. If you oppose them, they will fold like a wet paper house of cards.
M
Couldna said it better, Mark.
Thank for the sunshine, lads, but I’m from Oregon where we don’t get much of it.
\critical mode to ON\
Mark, your posit sounds good, but it lacks the dimension of time. Humans are result-driven critters, and without the visible results to stimulate, how do you keep us going?
Isn’t your slow reversion just another version of Hope & Change, which won’t fly either?
No, the best we can hope for now is that the Won, who WILL be re-elected for so many reasons I can’t list them all, loses patience himself and horribly over-reaches his power grab in his second term, and the Revolution is inspired into being. Once it starts, it will be a slam-dunk win for reversion. Tricky thing will be drawing the line bright enough so that all may see that it’s been crossed.
Next most difficult thing for revolutionaries is realizing the extent of the casualties involved with such a conflict. It’s not just the dot-gov which has to be defeated, because when they realize that the fight is on, they will call for the dependent classes to rise against the revolution. Hark back to the Watts Riots or the Rodney King Riots, or the coming Trayvon Martin Riots – they will be mere schoolyard dust-ups compared with the Won calling out the dependent classes to tie us down in the field.
And my points are all made flesh.
“It’s hard to know where to start refuting such imbecility. The act of making an X in a box, or its high-tech equivalent, is close to worthless as a means of either self-expression or imparting information. When masses of votes can be won by wearing silly hats and repeating silly slogans, it’s pretty hard to maintain the belief that election results reflect an aggregate wisdom in the electorate. I marvel that faith in democracy has survived the advent of C-SPAN.”
Read more: http://www.sobran.com/columns/2004/041026.shtml
Libs: yeah, yeah.
Tell me your solution.
And BTW: While you’re staying home, the hole that is being dug is being dug deeper, faster. I assume this means you’re OK with that. And I assume you like it. Also, most of what Sobran says is either demonstrably stupid, or a lie, or both.
Don’t have one. The hole we’re in is WAY deeper than my tiny intellect can think us out of.
With a 16T debt and over 100T in unfunded mandates, the whole shebang is gonna implode no matter who we elect. Perhaps sooner than later.
My plan is to get as much poontang, drink as much beer and get as fat as I can before the Coming Calamity. I figure I’ll have sweet memories and can put the fat reserves to good use.
“How did you go bankrupt?”
“Two ways, gradually and then suddenly.”
“the whole shebang is gonna implode no matter who we elect”
Soooo, you have a crystal ball, and can tell what’s going to happen in the future. I envy your skills.
maybe you should put those skills to better use.
the future is what we make it. if you want to make it a shitstorm, it’s probably what you are gonna get. I’d like to avoid that, and as has been proven time and time again, it is possible. Assuming everyone doesn’t give up and say ‘Well, X is gonna happen anyway”. Self fulfilling prophecy, anyone?
You can blame your parents for not staving this off when they had a chance. And you can blame their parents fdor not heading it off at the pass when it was their chance. And your children will blame you for not doing a damned thing as well. How far down the rathole does it have to go before anyone does anything? (I mean, other than saying it was someone else’s fault)
Yeah, i know, most are lazy. Then there are the anarchy dreamers, anxious to see the collapse so they can remake the world in their twisted image (Those will be the people whose supplies I consume first).
or you can get off your halfmoons, stop blaming it all on “other people”, and do something. you are those other people that caused this, in every generation. The rest of us would not like to suffer for your laziness.
And BTW: While you’re staying home, the hole that is being dug is being dug deeper, faster. I assume this means you’re OK with that. And I assume you like it. Also, most of what Sobran says is either demonstrably stupid, or a lie, or both.
I am afraid that either Romney or Santorum will keep right on digging. Their shovel might be a little smaller is all.
W. set records with his deficits. I wouldn’t regard a return to Bush level spending as something to cheer for. I doubt the repub will even cut back to Bush’s level.
Dem’s are evil, and Repub’s are useless at best, some being evil like Dem’s.
I hope you are right, Og, but I don’t think things get better till Uncle Sam’s checks start bouncing. People are going to vote themselves free healthcare and unicorns until it dawns on them that it just is not possible. That probably has to be proven to them and some still won’t get it. We will be a lot worse off by then.
My favorite metaphor for the ship of state is the Titanic.
We have hit the berg and are taking on water. The republicans want to pretend nothing is wrong, sail around the iceberg like nothing happened. The democrats want to back up and get a run at it.
A few people notice that neither one has the answer, the ship sinks either way.
If I had any sense I’d abandon ship, but where to go?
So, Giraffe, ill ask the same of you i ask of everyone. What are you yourself doing to improve the situation?
What are you yourself doing to improve the situation?
What can I do? I argue my position with those who will put up with me. I think my own family thinks I’m nuts. There isn’t a serious candidate that represents my views.
I occasionally send emails to my representatives when certain bills are up. (Especially when GOA alerts me.)
I don’t even think my views are that extremely right wing. We just seem to slowly bear left over time.
There’s a guy I admire, he’s a conservative. He lives in the town where I work, I do not.
He constantly fights city hall, circulation petitions, talking to the city council. He’s had council members tell him that he’s right, and they vote the other way anyway.
He’s basically fighting against projects that don’t need to be done. Milling up perfectly good streets, replacing perfectly good sewers, building storm sewers in parts of town that have been fine for 100 years without one. I believe he has been on the right side every time.
The public is apathetic or trust the city government.
He has yet to win.
Unlike every other time, I’m sure that voting Republican will fix it THIS time.
http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-fall/decline-fall-american-conservatism.asp
Riiiiiiiight.
So, how can you help him? Im not being sarcastic: simply saying ” nothing works” accomplishes nothing. Find something you can do, and do it. To pretend to have some moral superiority because you do nothing is ludicrous.
Try reading the words i wrote libs.
I do help him, as far as I can. The business I work for tries to get contracts from the city. Basically we are not in the position that we can fight city hall and try to get consulting work from them. Plus I don’t live here and have no voting rights or political standing.
I don’t think I disagree with you on anything, Og. I will do what I can, I’m just not optimistic that it will do any good. And I am not striking any poses, I just refuse to vote for a Republican that is a RINO.
I guess one statement you made I disagree with. Your 11:54 comment When a person doesn’t vote, you can’t claim they agree with what is going on. Not everyone stays home out of apathy.
When a person does vote, you can’t claim that they agree either, but the politicians will take it that way.
I accuse the man I referred to above of letting this happen to us. He says “not me”. And he is right, he didn’t vote for it, but he got it anyway after decades of faithfully voting, doing it your way.
I’ll try to do better Og. Maybe I’ll chew out my state representative or something. Maybe I can get him to introduce school vouchers for homeschoolers or something.
“…..I don’t think things get better till Uncle Sam’s checks start bouncing. People are going to vote themselves free healthcare and unicorns until it dawns on them that it just is not possible. That probably has to be proven to them and some still won’t get it. We will be a lot worse off by then.”
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!!!
A couple of debates I had recently with some Seasoned Citizens who are about as rightwing as they come have taught me that God help whomever has the Audacity to touch any of their Geezer Entitlements. They readily acknowledge that the math doesn’t work and that if something can’t continue it won’t and that if we stay the current course we’re destined for collapse…. just don’t EVER touch THEIR entitlements. There’s a whole lotta them Geezers now and they’re increasing in numbers daily. And they vote religiously. Hell, one of them was only 52 years old. This person made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that any politician who suggested raising the age of eligibility by even one year would not be voted for.
It’s over.
Still havent read anything i actually wrote, have you. Well, as ive repeatedly told pascal, some people cant be reached.
FWIW, Bush did not create any deficits. The democratic congress in place the last two years of his run did that for him.
Congress sets the spending tone. The Senate OK’s it and the president takes the blame.
I am getting off my ass for the first time in my life and helping my conservatives running for local and national office.
I am that scared.
Before now, “Hey, we are cool”.
Not anymore, this is the endgame.
“Well, as ive repeatedly told pascal, some people cant be reached. ”
It’s true. Og constantly tells me that. But I keep on trying. Some people are not all people. Another way of putting it is, Og wishes to spend his time more productively than I. I run ideas by him, but rarely has he not thought of it before, so mostly I wish him luck.
Paul B — GWBush never used his veto pen to force Congress to override his veto. Those deficits have his signature.
No. I am not voting for someone who stands against everything I believe just for a (potential) Supreme Court justice. I’d rather vote for someone who actually stands for liberty and truth- Ron Paul- than someone who MAY give us an okay nominee. Or maybe he gives us a Souter. Screw that.
If the SC votes against gun rights, that just brings things closer to an end. Fine. At least I know that I tried. And I know that others fooled themselves into falsehoods- like pretending voted mattered about SC justices.
Those who voted based on the SCOTUS have more to answer for than those who voted for liberty, not the other way around.
A vote for Obama or Romney is the same. Don’t fool yourself.
So, you difnt read the post either.
Og,
the mistake I think you are making is to assume that just because we got to this general point by increments, that we can reverse the process in an incremental fashion. Twenty years ago, I would agree with you. Maybe even ten, or, possibly, even 6 years back. At this point, I don’t think it’s practical. Not with the damage done to our financial areas. The Onedummie has linked our financial future to the EU, and when they go down the tubes, we go with them, along with the remainder of the world at that point.
I don’t see there being time to fix things before it all goes to hell. As our .gov is currently constituted, it isn’t possible to fix it overnite. Some people are thinking/hoping the future just sort of staggers along, not actually collapsing. I suspect that that is the most optimistic view, of those who study history. If that’s how it goes, it might have the highest survival rate of the various projections for the Western world.
I don’t claim to be an expert on any of the relevant fields. I’m just taking an overview of the writing on the subject.
Og, yes I did read the post. And I disagree with it. As Tam said in a comment, guns are easy. But the rest is not.
The left has gotten as far as did on incrementalism sure. But they did it by getting into education, and getting the votes. And they didn’t elect a so-moderate-he’s-almost-right candidates like we are trying to elect so-moderate-he’s-almost-left Romney. They elected strong left leaders.
To do what they did we need to elect Paul. Sure, he won’t get near close to everything he believes in. But he’ll get it as far as he can.
And I still don’t think that will be enough. Because of the mis-beliefs of most of the people (economy and war mostly), voting really won’t help. Not until we educate them.
Now i know you not only didnt read you didnt understand what you did read.
“you didn’t understand what you did read.
As Ed Koch out it:
“I can explain it to you. I can’t comprehend it for you.”