G-d warning
This is gonna be mostly Catholic stuff, so if you’re not into that, go read some old Dilbert strips or something. I have had this post rolling around my head since ash wednesday and though i try not to have theological posts i needed to get this written down, as rambling as it is.
I was never a big CS Lewis fan, because I recognize the type. I don’t know if I was precocious or what, but early on I understood that someone so vocal, so vehement about proclaiming their beliefs was not trying to convince others, but themselves.
It’s the most common, I find, among the most evangelical Christians; they also tend to be great readers of the bible. The reason for this is clear, they pore through each passage looking for bits and pieces to support their assertion that they are the one true proper followers of Christ. As though John Smyth or Charles Parham were the real founders of Christianity and not- frankly- Jesus Christ. The argument can be made that there isn’t a clear lineage of church heirarchy through the ages; the early church had some troubled times, no different than it does now. The problem with this argument is that the church is not the heirarchy; it is the people. And there is a clear and unbroken line of CATHOLICS from then to now. Oh, when Jesus was here, they didn’t call them Catholics, it wasn’t until a couple hundred years after that the greek/latin words καθολικός/Catholicus were brought to common usage, and when they were, they proclaimed the meaning of the word: Universal. The Catholic Church was the Universal church, and it was all of Christianity until the various schisms.
All of which were in response to actions of the clergy. Rule one, is, the Clergy are NOT the Catholic church. Catholics are. When each schism occurred, it was as a result of something the clergy did or was doing that pissed off some other people who decided that their way would be The One Real Way. After the east-west schism most of those schisms were purely ego driven. Unfortunately the egos of the players always took precidence over the theology, and each schism modified the theology and the dogma to suit it’s own purposes. Gloassalalia, sola scriptura, the whole bloody John 3:16 thing et al are all examples; who wouldn’t want to be a protestant? All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal savior and you can avoid all that other nonsense!! Well, the new churches had to have some kind of a draw to get people in the pews and dropping money in the collection basket.
Meanwhile, Christians just kept on being Christians. Not much will stop them, and not much will change them. See, Christianity is a behavior, it isn’t a sect. For my part, it’s easiest to stick with the oldest and most traditional branch of that particular tree. No doubt there are pentecostals somewhere that are far better Christians than I will ever be, but that is not because I am a Catholic, nor because they are pentecostal. The moment someone starts sniping at me about all the wrong the Catholic Church has supposedly done and how their particular “belief” is the only one, well, all I can do is pray for them, because I know they have substituted belief for faith, which is a pretty poor trade indeed. I pray that they develop some faith of their own. You can always tell someone who has it, they have no persistent urgent need to tell you yours is wrong.
It used to bother me because I could see these people were destined to fall into some bad shit, but I can’t be responsible for them, no matter how much I want to; NOBODY needs to belong to the Church of Og. I can pray for them to move into the light, I can help them when they fall, but I can’t fix their souls and I don’t try. Pascal reminds me The Lord asks us to persevere, and that’s true, but The Lord also says if people ignore your message, shake their dust from your sandals, and persevere in prayer. In the meantime, all Christians are my brothers, and I can tell which ones are Christian by their behavior. Some fall of the path, or start to wander into the “That Catholic shit is all wrong” category, and I will try to put their feet back on the path, but no matter how much I may love them and pray for them, they insist on their ignorance. And that’s fine. Shake, shake.
Eric Hoffer talks about a “Fact proof screen”. This is the sort of thing that is endemic of people of belief, but doesn’t exist in people of faith. A lot of people make a lot of assumptions about who I am and what I think, and they are invariably incorrect. I stopped trying to change that. if you’re determined to believe that i think something, that’s your problem, and not mine. If you’re my friend, and you’re interested, you might try asking me. And then trusting that what I tell you is the truth, because I have no agenda that requires me to lie.
I have no idea how I managed to live this long. By rights, I probably should be dead already, all the shit that I have done or had happen to me. I am tickled shitless every day I wake up. Having arrived at this age has cost some things, but it has given me some perspective and maybe even a little wisdom, as hard earned as it has been. Part of that wisdom has taught me not to argue with people I don’t know, no matter how wrong- or stupid- they are. The internet makes this hard, but I have to do it for the sake of my own blood pressure. Also, I want to enjoy the time I have left. The worst used to be the people who did (and still do!) equate Faith with a lack of understanding of science, (Morons, in other words) or morality with a lack of compassion (Also, morons) or mores with “Intolerance”. (The worst kind of morons). I used to get truly upset with these people and I finally realized I cannot change them, they exist only to shout down anyone who disagrees with them, they have zero interest in discussion, they have no intention of changing their belief, and they are only capable of shouting “Racist” or “Denier” or “Homophobe” or whatever epthet that makes their feeble point. it is not possible to do battle with anyone on those battlegrounds, for they have made the rules, hold all the cards, and have all the advantage.
Don’t play this game. Don’t enter naked into the field of battle where your opponent makes all the rules and has all the weapons, because no matter how correct you are and how wrong they are, they will consider themselves to have the moral high ground and they will count it as a win. And this goes for political as well as theological discussions. All reasoning people should stop this, I feel, because once these morons found themselves alone on the ludicrous battlefields of their own creation without an enemy to shout down, the ridiculousness of their position would begin to show itself. It would be as if we stopped burying people in the US; the Westboro baptists would have nothing else to do anymore.
So I concentrate my efforts where they can do some good. And I keep my friends close. And when some idiot starts mouthing off at me I just click the “Ignore” button (Personally AND professionally) and pray for them, and move on. There isn’t much else I can do.
17 comments Og | Uncategorized

Regarding C.S. Lewis, he’s obviously popular among American Evangelicals, many of which were shocked to learn that he drank and smoked. Personally I’ve always liked Lewis, he’s proof that Christian-themed fiction can be good IF the story comes first and the Theology underlies it instead of starting with the Theology and trying to build a story to depict it. I also like his Theological works (like Mere Christianity) because he does such a good job of explaining the basic doctrines that are held by ALL Christians, and I do mean the basics, who was Jesus, what did he do, what did it accomplish, etc. His denial of the idea that Jesus was really just a good man who went around teaching is as clear as it gets, He SAID He was the Son of God, so he was either a liar, a lunatic, or the Son of God. A plain old good man isn’t an option.
Regarding the “fact proof screen”, I run into that ALL the time with one person who is convinced the universe is 8,000 years old (or whatever the generally accepted number acquired by adding up ages at which begats occurred). When point out a star to him and tell him it’s 10 million light years away, meaning the light that is hitting his eye has been en route for 10 million years, so if the universe was only 8,000 years old he wouldn’t see the star, he insists that when God created everything 8K years ago he created all the light en route too.
Likewise, he’ll deny that we’ve found fossils on earth that are millions of years old, he’ll insist that none of the dating methods has ever been used on something known to be that age. But of course there’s no one alive today to TELL us that something was around then, so we rely on a dating method. (facepalm)
As if G-d was bound by the limited mind of man. Exactly.
In some flavors of Christianity it is a basic tenet of their faith to impose it upon other people. This includes bellowing on street corners, bombarding innocent strangers with tracts, visiting their neighbors to read the Bible at them, demonstrating in front of political officials/public events, and in general making asses of themselves in the name of “keeping you from going to hell.”
Terry Pratchett refers to these people as “god-botherers” and he is exactly right. By this I don’t mean people who do genuine relief/refugee/compassionate works in desperate parts of the world but rather the ones who use these venues merely to collect converts for their church.
I have a lot of these self-important soul saviors in my own family and have spent a lifetime being proselytized at every opportunity. From family reunions to weddings to funerals — yes, I was actively harassed to give my life to Jesus at a family member’s funeral — the overwhelming message is that whatever you hold as your faith, it is no good and you are eternally dammed to the fiery flames. What you believe is unimportant because it is godless; even though they preach all the time about good works, a lifetime of good works is wasted when it comes from someone who has not come to Jesus.
It is not lack of conviction on their part that makes them hurl their faith at all comers — it is the unshakable belief that they are right and you are damned.
It is very tiresome. I try not to be rude to these people but I do feel like they are rude first by invading my space and imposing their belief system on me. Had to deal with it since I was a small child — literally, like 6 or 7 years old being told by jackass adults I was going to hell, going directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
What would Jesus do? Not that.
Jenny
“What would Jesus do? Not that.”
Lol. Indeed. The G-d botherers do so because they feel more true believers will make a strong enough case that G-d will side with them
And the only tool they have is hatred and fear.
” Part of that wisdom has taught me not to argue with people I don’t know, no matter how wrong- or stupid- they are.”
Anything really important needs face to face, eye to eye, in the flesh conversation. A good cigar and drink help.
“No doubt there are pentecostals somewhere that are far better Christians than I will ever be,”
I know atheist heathens who live more christian lives than me.
Ditto.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=rJXIugwiN7Q
Be the best you can be. That is all anyone can really do.
I always love your take on Faith, Og. Having “come out from among them” at the tender age of 13, and subsequently being the only Catholics in a very small Mormon town in Utah, I can attest to the difference (learned early/the hard way/emphatically) between faith and belief.
Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone.
Liz, you are my beacon. Never forget that. I may not talk to you every day nor visit every day, but you have served as a lighthouse for me when I have lost my way. And I cannot adequalty express how grateful I am for that.
Bravo, Og! and not just because I agree. All one can do is pray for others (and oneself) to find wisdom & accept Grace.
The Commandments are just that. I’ve broken several, some repeatedly. I pray daily. I do so mostly in thanks, partly for greater understanding & to be an instrument of His will (and yes, I know how dangerous that request can be), for the good of others (His good, not my idea of it, other than watching out for folks), & a bit I won’t get into.
I don’t attend a church. I was raised Church of Christ, but I feel closer to the Divine when hunting, hiking, riding a motorcycle, any number of things. For me it’s more appreciation of what I’m blessed to see & live. YMMV. I try hard to be a good man. Sometimes it’s at my expense, not necessarily monetarily. It can be hard to be good; I’d often rather be a nasty bastard, & I was once really good at that. Still, the morality my folks instilled comes through more as I age.
Outcome, not intention, is the test in this world, & maybe in a larger conext. Wanting to do the right thing, & doing the obviously wrong thing, ain’t gonna get you to heaven. I think trying to do right & failing is still better than taking the easy way. In that instance, perhaps He looks at intentions.
Sadly, Og, I suspect too many people don’t even think much on such things. It’s a reflection on your character that you do.
I imagine that’s part of what makes you good at your job. For me, it would a moral failing to give a customer less than the best I can do.
I was raised a Baptist and baptized a Methodist. I recall once at a class about Methodism someone asked the pastor about the different Christian sects. He said that the schisms generally occurred because of personality conflicts and the theological underpinning came along later to justify the split. That has always stayed with me.
Oh, and this is the third time this week Eric Hoffer has come up in something I read or heard, and it’s only Wednesday.
Looks like I have to move him higher on the list of books to read.
Re: Pascal reminds me The Lord asks us to persevere, and that’s true, but The Lord also says if people ignore your message, shake their dust from your sandals, and persevere in prayer.
I know you think I’m differing with you on this, but that is inaccurate.
First let’s review Proverbs 9:7-9
7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults; whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.
Then Job 28:28
Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom;
and to depart from evil is understanding.
When you “see” the resistance is scoffing, hostile or evil, depart. I agree. Seeing it is not so easy for us mortals, but we are expected weigh the evidence first and actually come to a decision and act on it. It’s the NOT coming to a decision and acting by the many that has landed our nation in the fix.
I don’t know that I ever thought you differ, so much as you will try so much harder with people I would have walked away from much earlier.
You are right there. That has been true. But as people have proven to become intransigent, that inclination of mine is less so now. Thanks to you for helping see it.
I think you have a good deal to share, and should do so with the next generation of people who are willing to learn. If you teach four, you will do more than you could ever do on your own, through those four.